The final posting issues due to the massive, often-referred thread were enough to start an easier to manage discussion. Credit to KingIndy for the suggestion.

This thread as a whole has become a wealth of information and supportive discussion for those interested in utilizing or experimenting with the Anabolic Diet.

Let the information flow continue.

Indy, is there a significant gap in the increase elicited by monounsaturated fats versus saturated fats?

I never had associated mono's to be important in that sense. I guess I'll be goin' back to choking down olive oil.

Hey Mods! If possible, would you make part I a sticky? Best thread on the site bar none.

Thank you for taking the initiative to get us on a manageable thread.

From what I've read, monounsaturated is actually better, but the ratio of saturated to polyunsaturated is important as well... meaning more saturated to polyunsaturated is correlated to higher T levels.

I actually don't mind olive oil, put it in your shake, the taste mostly disappears. Natural peanut butter is another great option though... only 3 net carbs to deal with for 2 tbsp while you get 13g of monounsaturated.

Getting your BioSig done is pretty simple. You go to the poliquin website and use their online search function to find someone close to where you are.

From there on, it took just one phone call to set it up. The guy came home, (offered to come to my office!), took the measurements asked some questions about how I train, nutrition plan etc.
I got my results that night. (time may vary of course).

*THESE WERE ALL TAKEN THE MORNING AFTER MY CARB-DAY*
-------------------------------------------
Chin: 4mm
Cheek: 6.9mm
Pec: 5mm
Tricep: 4.1mm
Mid-Ax: 5.5mm
Sub-Scap: 9mm (highest)
Suprailiac: 6mm
Calf: 4mm
Knee: 5mm
Umbilical: 8.9mm

Indy, I used EVOO today in my shake. It wasn't bad, but I only really hate the direct taste of olive oil. I hate imbibing JUST oil to begin with, but the unique taste of olive oil I've really learned to dislike.

Mixed in water it's not that bad, though. I never thought to look at my peanut butter fat ratios. I started looking at various things last night, but EVERY single thing I was interested in only listed total and trans fat content.

So, what you're suggesting yields an optimal balance in the concept of the ratio, 1:2:3 (rough for simplicity) being polys:saturates:monos?

Evil, that's pretty impressive. Those measurements look good, too. Do you have any pictures I could see? Also, I'd like you to talk about the price of the analysis. Great how convenient it seems!

On the topic of fats, would somebody provide a list of healthy fats to easily add calories onto the AD? I realize to fully adapt, many calories need to come from fat and lean meats, fish, cheese, etc. don't have enough. Maybe provide an example of the amount of daily fats during a weekday (fish oils, heavy cream, EVOO, butter). Thanks.

A list of the healthiest:

Polyunsaturated
Fish Oil
Flax Oil

Monounsaturated
Olive Oil
Almonds - other nuts
Natural Peanut Butter

Saturated
Beef
Whole Cheese

Combination
Eggs

Does that help? If you want to be really clean about it these are the best but there are many more options... polyunsaturated with omega 3's do limit you. Buy omega 3 eggs, omega 3 peanut butter(flax oil added) and get plenty of fish oil first, flax oil second.

Thanks KI, I'm gonna save that post for when I actually start the AD in a few weeks. Just winding down the Velocity Diet now and have seen some pretty fantastic resutls. 195 --> 184 after 3 weeks...well on the way to a good summer cut.

I'm guessing the lack of other meats listed above means white meats (pork, chicken) are low in sat. fats? Where would dairy fats fall here? Mostly saturated?

Pork can be high in saturated fats, but pork also has a huge range of types of meats and cuts. Pork PRODUCTS are typically quite unhealthy due to added cures, preservatives, flavorings, etc.

Poultry and fish are quite low in saturated fats, even something like chicken thighs. None of it really compares to lamb and beef.

Dairy is thought to typically be saturated. Most animal fats will have a high percentage of saturates while plant sources hardly ever seem to be saturated.

I think it may be beneficial if you all tried grouping members by weight...decide whose made the best results in given area and then the group can have a ballpark calorie/ratio scheme

Thanks for the info on Bio Signature Evil1,
and good idea to start a new thread NZ!

~M~

I'm currently reading through the discussion thread for the Get Shredded Diet to scout out any tips and troubleshooting.

One thing that kind of hit me was the low protein. 120-140g on my diet? That's not even my bodyweight... I ALSO had just read that Protein Cycling article last night in which the author attempts to cycle periods of what we would call 'normal protein intake' with like, 40g/day kinds of intake to elicit a druglike effect. As far as I've read in the thread, JB hasn't clarified anything on the protein, but it is sinking in that this could very well be the reason my AD cutting has been so stupidly ineffective. My protein has been typically very high.

I plan to modify my ADing into the Get Shredded plan using a breakdown of 40g C, 100g fat, 140g P each day (give or take) to give me about 1600 cals. Last night I calculated just over 1900 and I was hungry as all hell thinking, "god damn, and I'm still 300 over."

My biggest change will essentially be ditching the red meat except for maybe a meal a day. Chicken, EVOO, and broccoli...here come the old-school bodybuilding diets.

I'll be sure to let you guys know how the next week goes because dropping my protein intake (if that is indeed my problem) should elicit an immediate change I think.

Do you guys have any recommendations on using HOT-ROX Extreme? I have a bottle, but I don't want to use it until I've "figured this out", so as to maximize its efficacy. I was also thinking, once I do bring it in, perhaps I could cycle it and make observations week to week like Berardi suggested (but without the use of a weaker supplement).

For GSD reg. HOT-ROX are used that often FYI. I've been on GSD while using Meltdown II as my training...I lost a lot of everything. I like the Velocity diet a lot better...Maybe its the supplements that are keeping me together but GSD just didn't work for me. Also I believe I tried GSD after a not so glorious attempt at dropping weight so again my thyroid/metabolism etc. was probably dead at this time

As it is higher in fats is chicken thigh fillet preferred over chicken breast?

Thanks.

Okay after getting into preparation for the AD, I FINALLY got my cholesterol tests through!! (only took like 3 weeks!..jeez!)

So now I can officially start the AD on full-tilt!! and will post my results as I go along!

Appreciate all the support guys!

~M~

Ok so I've decided to hit up the AD again...while adhering to Berardi's 10 habits. Which will be easy and will fit the AD guidelines as well. And I'll keep cheat meals to 10%/week. So on my carb ups that'll give me 2 cheats on both Saturday and Sunday, the rest clean! My only ice is that I still have W/O fuel and Surge left so I think I'll use the rest of those up when I bulk and then transition back onto the AD train. Alright, so my second 12 day-induction should be cake as I'll be coming off the Velocity Diet...so in one month I'll be here everyday or so instead of there

Awesome Max, I've been very interested to see unpublished blood profile changes from this diet.

Good to have another head aboard, BK.

Just so I know, is anyone also trying to follow Get Shredded in conjunction with this right now?

I took in about 1600 cal yesterday, and it sucked a lot, but after starving myself I fortunately realized I still had a comfortable amount of food left to bring in. The mirror looked alright today, I was kind of impressed.

I'm beginning to think that my hopes of dieting down at my 'typical BF% range' in a 'healthy, comfortable' manner are just unrealistic and my fat doesn't start coming off until I shock my body into something horrible.

Once again, this whole diminished protein intake is VERY interesting to me. I absolutely hate the chains we are bound by from the psychological fear of losing muscle. It's not like it doesn't happen, but those of us who have never experienced it and are coming up from skinny bodies rather than FFB bodies let it control us.

Any experimentation with diminished protein is deemed suicidal for your physique because we're conditioned to be so scared to lose our hard work.

This is just a thought, but I think it would be nice if someone were to leave this thread due to leaving the dietary practice, if they would post one final time, summarizing their impressions of the diet, the pros, cons, and troubles they had and how they did or didn't fix them.

By the way, I wanted to ask everyone who knows anything about Get Shredded to recommend what pwo should be.

Whey+creatine in water?
whey+evoo+creatine in water?
BCAAs+creatine in water?

Berardi mentions having BCAAs and creatine pwo but I don't know if the whey isolate was implied or not. Can someone shed some light on this for me?

Today I used whey+creatine in water, thinking I maybe should have added oil, but am not really sweating it since I'd rather save my oil for when I'm starving at night.

When you guys say whey & olive oil is this with water or milk?

Gona man up tomorrow and try!
How much oil?

Gona man up tomorrow and try!
How much oil?

Have some coffee and go to the gym, do your usual workout BUT only as much weight as comfortably possible. Drink plenty of water.

Try the whey + EVOO no water. Eat with a spoon like pudding. Water and oil would not mix.

As far as carbs go:
Stick to your leafy greens. the darker the better. spinach, lettuces, kale, collards etc An entire bag of fresh spinach leaves has about 3 net carbs.
same with lettuce and bagged mixes of various salads.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that when I did take whey + cream/EVOO I would add in sugar free syrups and such. probably why I never had any problems wrt taste

I've done the whey+oil before evil, it's gross. Texture and taste are both horrible. It doesn't dissolve properly because I imagine the instantized powder is made to be water-soluble.

Max, try to think of green veggies. Anything you previously mentally grouped with 'carbs' shouldn't be the sources of this diet. Also, with the green veggies (broccoli, green beans, leafy veggies, asparagus, zucchini...), exclude peas. Also, mushrooms and cauliflower are good things to include.

Thanks Evil & NZ - so good to have you guys on this thread supporting us newbies!! :)

I def have been eating a lot of greens, esp spinach, peppers and cucumber!.

I cooked up about 500g of beef last night in plum tomatoes, and added a pepper and a corgette in there. One can of tomatoes had 16g CHO, and all of it was sugar... is this ok on the AD??

Im assuming 30g CHO daily does not matter where it comes from as long as you dont exceed that!?!? (I prefer eating meat in a tomatoes sauce base as opposed to having it just 'cooked')

I also did my first workout this afternoon (Im lucky I can leave work at 3pm for a session! ;)), and came back feeling pumped! - it was actually harder getting the motivation to go to the gym as I was feeling drained.

I cant do coffee Evil - gives me really bad stomach churns!! Might try the Whey+EVOO as a pudding!.. but already getting funny looks at work taking a tbsp of the oil at my desk!..haha!! ;)

Will post up full day 1 progress tmrw!

~M~

If you read the Anabolic Solution, Dr. D actually says some of his clients choose to eat 0g of carbs so they can have ice cream or something similar later in the day. As absurd as this may seem to us, his endorsement would imply his consent when getting 16g CHO from tomatoes at once.

A new anabolic diet thread? I won't stand for this blasphemy.

Ok men (any females around here?), just got a hold of the results from my blood test. They actually make you pay for the report here, but I digress.

Test...Results...Optimal Range
________________________________________
Glucose Fasting...(4.5)...(3.6-6.0mmol/L)
Creatinine...(106)...(60-110umol/L)
eGFR...(82)...(>60mL/min/1.73m)

Cholesterol...(4.57)...(<5.20mmol/L)
Triglycerides...(0.30)...(<2.30mmol/L)
HDL...(2.74)...(>=1.00mmol/L)
LDL...(1.69)...(<2.60mmol/L)
TC/HDL ratio...(1.7)...(<5.00)

Sodium...(141)...(135-145mmol/L)
Potassium...(4.7)...(3.3-5.1mmol/L)
Chloride...(104)...(95-108mmol/L)
Alk Phos...(32)...(20-140U/L)
Alt...(13)...(<46U/L)
sTSH...(1.27)...(0.35-5.00mIU/L)better if low

Hematology:
Hemoglobin...136...(135-170g/L)
Hematocrit...0.40...(0.38-0.49l/l)
RBC...(4.48)...(4.20-5.70)
WBC...(5.1)...(4.0-11.0/L)
Platelets...(145-400/L)
------------------------------------------

Comparison to previous. Absoluteley no changes, except my HDL is a lot higher than when I was on the opposite plan (high cho n pro)

DAY 1 OF MY AD:

Hey guys so, Ive broken down my diet for yesterday, and it reads as follows (shame about the way it formats on here, but you can follow it!):->>>

Kcal /Fat (g)/ Carbs (g)/ Protein (g)
Breakfast
5 Eggs 428/ 29.8/ 2.25/ 37.75
1tbsp EVOO135/ 15/ 0/ 0
Spinach
3 caps Fish Oil 45.57/ 3/ 0/ 0

Lunch and Snack
Beef (500g) 1200/ 100/ 0/ 100
1 Pepper 24/ 0.2/ 5.5/ 1
1/2 Corgette
1 can tomatoe 100/ 0/ 16/ 1

Pre-Workout
Protein Shake 108/ 0.3/ 0.2/ 26/
1tbsp EVOO 135/ 15/ 0/ 0

Post-workout
Protein Shake108/ 0.3/ 0.2/ 26
1tbsp EVOO 135/ 15/ 0/ 0

Dinner
Chicken(200g) 474/ 27/ 0/ 54.1
1 Pepper 24/ 0.2/ 5.5/ 1
Spinach
1tbsp Guacamole

Before Bed
Protein Shake 108/ 0.3/ 0.2/ 26
1 tbsp EVOO 135/ 15/ 0/ 0
2 Caps Flax Seed 26.5/ 2/ 0/ 0

TOTAL kCals>3186.07/ FAT>223.1/ CHO>29.85/ PROTEIN>272.85


Im SHOCKED...Now according to this Ive taken in over 3000kcals!.. but it really doesnt feel like it!! I havent included the Spinach, Corgette or Guacamole as these were minimal.

LEARNING POINTS: I need to increase greens, and maybe reduce my EVOO! I took in 4 tbsp of EVOO ystrday!..and that in total came to over 540kcals, and 60g fat!! - so maybe 1tbsp less! - I only need 200g fat per day.

Im going to throw in a can of tuna to boost protein up to my daily target of 300g. I also need to count more accurately, as the veggies and Guacamole would have taken me over 30gCHO. And must drink more water!!

My Training session was quite light ystrday(arms and chest), which Im ok with until my first carb up in 11 days.

CHOLESTEROL: My test showed a reading of 5.90mmol/L which is above the good range, so hopefully it will come down after being on AD! Will measure it every 4 weeks.

SYMPTOMS: Well still feeling quite crappy!... not getting that rush of energy I had when taking CHO!! I also miss that pumped feeling I had on carbs. My muscles feel flat and soft! I really want that chunky tight look, as opposed to the skinny lean look!

But Im hoping that will all come once Ive done the carb up! - Im still visiting the toilet each morning, but somebody pass me the air-freshener!! ;)

On a positive note, my skin looks better, and my tanita scales say I have lost weight (now 72kg), but my bodyfat% has gone down, and muscle mass % has gone up - so must have shed some water. I need to put on weight not lose it though!!...let wait and see!

Guys- The hardest thing is the constant tiredness and lack of enthusiasm..what kinda symptoms did you suffer in the first week? Both mentally, and in terms of your muscle definition?..ANY TIPS!?...(except coffee!)..cheeers!!

~M~

Max for the love of god take a fiber supplement. You won't want to listen to me until it's too late, so please do it.

All of a sudden you'll just have like, anal leakage and explosive diarrhea. My first four days sucked so badly that I was thinking of abandoning the whole thing. I kind of wish I had to save me all the troubles I've had since, but seriously. Fiber supplement.

I recommend pure psyllium husk powder and/or pure guar gum.

I bought some protein powder from a franchise called Smoothie King. It tastes decent, and is less than 1 g of cho per 40 g of protein.

I noticed that it is loaded with Amino Acids as well.

Will Amino Acids interfere with the low carb phase of this diet?

FWIW, the protein mix is Gladiator, and is a mix of whey and egg proteins.

Thank you

On AD 3rd day feeling great so far!

My typical menu for 3600cals:

Meal #1 - 5am
3 omega3 Eggs
3 Bacon
3 Omega3 Fish oil
=======================================
Cal=568.8 / P=47.55 / C=3.45 / F=40.05
=======================================
Meal #2 - 7am (PWO)
1scp Protein
100ml lactose free milk
handful frozen raspberries
1tsp Psyllium Husks
2Tbs Olive Oil
=======================================
Cal=352 / P=38 / C=12.3 / F=17.1
=======================================
Meal #3 - 9am Spinach Omelet
4 omega3 Eggs
75g Spinach
75g Cheese
125g Cottage Cheese
1tsp Psyllium Husks
=======================================
Cal=759.4 / P=61.9 / C=7.8 / F=53.2
=======================================
Meal #4 - 12
300g Chicken thigh fillet
Baby Spinach Salad
2Tbs Olive Oil
1tsp Psyllium Husks
=======================================
Cal=1090 / P=81.6 / C=9.6 / F=73.6
=======================================
Meal #5 - 4pm
2 Lean Aussie Burgers
=======================================
Cal=307.2 / P=48 / C=1.2 / F=11
=======================================
Meal #6 - 8pm
300g Fillet Beef Steak
Broccoli
3 Omega3 Fish oil
=======================================
Cal=632.5 / P=86.4 / C=0 / F=19.2
=======================================


Totals
=======================================
Cal=3675.9 / P=360.05(39.2%) / C=29.55(3.2%) / F=214.05(52.4%)
=======================================

How does this look?

As much as I love it I'd like to ditch the bacon every morning as it cant be good for you any ideas on a quick easy sub here?

Want to add some nuts in the chicken salad which are the best nuts for this?

Getting blood work done tomorrow am what do I need to look for with the results?

Thanks guys for the great new thread!

For subbing bacon, organic stores as Evil recommended often have bacon free from preservatives.

Max, I didn't crash multiple times, but it was kind of like a slow fall, with a long duration.

DAY 2 on the AD

Hey guys, here is the breakdown of my nutrition for yesterday:

kCals: 2758
Protein: 204.4
Fat: 197.1
CHO: 17.5

Basically, I fell short of my targets due to bad preparation. I missed my kCals by 250, Protein by 100g (crap!), Fat only by 3g, and CHO by 13g

Question: Do we HAVE to hit 30CHO? (Im aware that we dont want to hit ketosis, just wondered how strict that figure is on a daily basis?)

Okay, well the zombie state has really worn off after my crash-out!, and I had 1/2lb of ground lamb with kale and brocolli, and felt better.

I spoke with a guy from my supplement store who is a natural body-builder, and also is on the AD. He recommended I up my fat intake, so my body can transition to fat burning faster over the first month on the AD.

Also, he told me to cut out the tomatoes!! which I was having a lot of, as they are essentially fruits, and the fructose was probable screwing with my systemm causing the lethargy!..I kinda knew that, but was keeping it below 30g CHO...hmm..gonna stick to lots of dark greens for now!

Asides of the ususal AD foodstuffs, and coffee, anyone got any good pre-workout energy tips??

Will post up Day3 tomorrow

~M~

Keep it below 30 CHO, if possible. 30 is the maximum allowed on the first 12 days. I'd recommend BCAA's about 20-30 min pre-workout with your coffee. OR you can mix a scoop of whey with your coffe which is pretty tasty, kinda like a mocha.

DAY 3 on the AD (25th March 09)

kCals: 3245
Protein: 200g
Fat: 245g
CHO: 24g

So once again missed my protein target by 100g!!!... I need to up this bigtime - although Im still taking in more than I was when I was on carbs!!

Thankfully I went to the toilet today!!.. and laid an almighty stinker of a poop in the gym toilets!!..haha!!... cleared half a mile with that one!! ;)

Energy is so much better!!. However, I do look very flat and very skinny, and I sweated like a pig during today's leg session!!!

Im not craving the carbs, but Im sure that I will be much more pumped once the 5day-2day split kicks in!!

Will post up Day4 later...

~M~

Hey everybody. Started going anabolic about 4 days ago after a year of high carb bulking(read: getting fat). It messed with my head at first.... the fogginess and drained feeling but now i'm feeling good. Just looking for like-minded people who are very friendly with fats. Why is everyone so afraid of fats?

Has anybody tried evoo shots?

Evil, good points all around. I want to highlight one of the points, tough. You mentioned this isn't an ideal short term cutting diet...but CT has mentioned before if you keep fat high enough and cut carbs you can become fat adapted in a week or so. With the resources to be keeping track of calories so easily accessible (fitday.com), why wouldn't anyone use the AD or any form of ketogenic diet to cut in say 8-12 weeks?

Would results not occur within the first 2-3 months? I could see someone wanting to prolong the diet (maintenance) if they got great results in the first 2-3 months, obviously.

Thanks for your resource, it looks to be quite a read.

To answer your question, mainly, I wanted to bulk following my competition in October. However, I celebrated my achievement (which is very unlike me) and gained more pure fat in a week than I thought was possible. I wanted to erase this mistake before going into doing what I had loosely planned before. It was all in the interest of massing up with a good bodyfat and not straying too far from it.

Evil, I concede that I'm not an expert of the AD who has studied and experienced it for 20 years, but I'm drawing conclusions that significant body recomp is just not possible through a mere shifting of macronutrient ratios.

The energy is all still there...why would your body even want to change when its energy needs are being met? In my head I could only imagine it happening if someone lived 20 years following a certain macro breakdown (roughly) and then spent the next 20 on the AD as an active individual of course. Otherwise, it seems ridiculous.

Do you have anything to say to this?

Nope.
It's some I believe but can't prove.
I believe shifting your macros will impact your physique if every things else (training, rest etc) is kept constant because each combination of macros leads to a different hormonal reaction (more/less insulin, more/less T, cortisol etc)
eg:
Diet A: 60% cho, 15% fat, 15% pro
Diet B: 40% cho, 30% fat, 30% pro
Diet C: 30% cho, 30% fat, 40% pro

It is my belief that the hormonal cascade that flows from each macro-nutrient combination will influence body comp very differently.

Actually, come to think about it, this is the basis of Rob Faigin's book "Natural Hormonal Enhancement".

1st carb up since i got back into the AD after a few weeks of cheating! feel awesome 600g of carbs yesterday and another 600g to cometoday. Funny enough i ended up eating less calories from my weekdays. 600g of carbs 50g fat and around 60g of protein ended up to be 3200 calories and i consumed 3500 for 2 weeks. This is awesome i feel good to be back on track.

For all the new guys starting out give it a chance it works. At first eat few hundred extra calories or as evil said don't bother counting. Once you are fat adapted then start playing with the different phases.

Hey guys!

Well Ive just completed my first week on the AD... and ive achieved my faily maintenance targets of 3000kcals, 300g Protein, 200g fat, and 30g CHO.

I did have 'off days', but my averages over the week meet my target levels, and I remember DiPasq saying how you can set weekly calorie target if it was easier.

Training has been mixed. Some days I feel shattered. Some days feel like I can lift more and go for ages. Havent really had the 'amazing' energy rush Ive heard about. When will I KNOW I am fat adapted?

ONE QUESTION: Ive eaten usually below 30g CHO for the last week, but for some reason I am putting a lot of weight on the belly area - looking a bit pregnant! Now this could be due to all the saturated fat Im taking as I am eating a lot of ground each day!..and about 5 eggs each morning!

SO..is this normal on the AD? - to see a bloated (almost pregnant) belly!?... what can I do to get rid of it???.. more exercise.. less fat (less sat fat??).Its the same effect when I was eating lot of CHO...so really confused here!! HELP!

Thanks

~M~

I have a related question about keeping things moving. Does dietary fiber really count as net 0 carbs? Say I have 4 fiber choice and 2 servings of milled flax seed (total 24g fiber/carbs). Does this really mean my carbs are 0? What about vegetable carbs?

What's the best way to count these. I've been continuously accumulating more than 30 CHO if I don't take the net (of fiber).

Haha, oh Max I wish I could give you particular insight, but I just find it funny that you almost sound just like me the first few weeks.

your muscles are flat because they don't have any glycogen in them. 1 gm glycogen in a cell usually has 2.7 gm of water. as you lose glycogen from weight training, you also, lose the water, hence the 'flatness'. there really is no remedy for that.

2-3 days after a carb you will always reach a sort of 'peak condition'. you'll feel tight. then flatter on Friday before carbing up again.

The 'excess' you can now grab onto now, may also be due to the fact that your cells are no longer full of glycogen and water to stretch them. so you feel like you kind of have excess skin. It will dissipate to an extent.

Go for 3 more weeks, and if you are gaining fat (caliper measure not scale weight) adjust you cals. After the induction, I would up at BWx15 for maintenance.

Ok, after searching far and long, I finally found the link I wanted to share with you all.

www.anabolicdietblog.com/pictures/

I just picked up a big tub of Mayonnaise from Costco today. What the hell can I use it for? Recipe ideas guys?

Another q...SURGE Workout Fuel has 21g of carbs per serving. I realize this isn't a good idea on the AD but wouldn't those simple carbs be fully used by your body for energy during a workout instead of storage?

I could easily save it for another time (after giving the AD a fair shake) and replace with BCAAs peri WO.

Wow. After reading through the old thread and the original book, I realized the "Anabolic Diet" I did was just a regular ketogenic diet a la Dave Palumbo. The true AD is a much different and more intriguing animal. With that said, acouple questions to those in the know...

1. So I understand the percentage should be 60%F/35%P/5%C. I'm bad at match, so I'm wondering for a 210lb dude who wants to lean up, would the macros be something like 200P/300F/30C?

2. I assume the carb requirement will be satisfied by whatever nuts, PB, and vegetables I eat, am I right?

Thanks!

So you are taking the "net carbs" of fiber. Gotcha. I'm going to give the 65/30/5 split a whirl when I start. I'm coming off of the Velocity diet so the solid food will be an absolute blessing.

Should I DEFINITELY start on the maintenance phase with the 18Xs body weight? Currently around 180 lbs so ~3250 cals.

this may have been asked and answered before on the hundreds for pages of AD forums here, or could be in the book, which i have not read (im sure it is..) but-

i started to follow the AD principals about 2 months ago, as best i could and after a month or so i went to the docs for allergies and had my blood pressure taken, it was high, 149/85 or 90 i believe, question is, any corrolation to the AD and high BP and or clogging arteries? or is it one of the magical things about eating a lot of fat, that it affects you less in more than 1 way..???

I'm curious about this whole AD thing, so I threw together a theoretical meal plan. I'm about 210 now, would like to be a consideraebly leaner 200ish.

Meal 1 -
5 Whole Omega 3 Eggs
2 Slices American Cheese
5 Fish Oil Caps
2 tbsp Low Carb Ketchup

Pre-Workout -
5 g Creatine, 5 g BCAAs
Peri-Workout -
10g BCAAs
Post-Workout -
2 Scoops Metabolic Drive
5g Creatine, 5g Glutamine, 5g BCAAs, 5g Leucine

Meal 2 -
6oz Ground Bison
2oz Mixed Nuts
2 Cups Broccoli
5 Fish Oil Caps

Meal 3 -
6oz Ground Turkey
Salad w/ Romaine LEttuce, 2 tbsp EVOO, Red Wine Vinegar
5 Fish Oil Caps

Meal 4 -
2 Scoops Metabolic Drive
3 tbsp Natural PB
5 Fish Oil Caps

Meal 5 -
6oz Ground Bison
2oz Almonds
2 Cups Broccoli
5 Fish Oil Caps

Meal 6 -
6oz Ground Beef
2 tbsp Ketchup
2 Slices American Cheese
Cucumber Salad w/ 2 tbsp EVOO & vinegar

Meal 7 -
2 Scoops Metabolic Drive
3 tbsp Natural PB
5 Fish Oil Caps

How does that look? Too much protein?

*****NEED HELP HERE****

To: Bulgarian/ Evil1/ NZ,..and any other helpful AD-ers!

You guys have been very helpful!..and now I REALLY need your help!!

Ive posted some pics of myself to show you guys how the AD has really got me quite bloated...and then i need your STRAIGHT advice on how to change things!!!

Now remember..Im NOT a bodybuilder, nor do I workout like 6 days per week!..Im just a regular guy, with a full-time job, and just starting to workout (about 3 times per week)... so BEAR that in mind when you look at my hideous physique!!! haha!! (plus I weigh about 161 lb, 6ft tall, and about 12% bf)

***===>>>Click on my name above my avatar and then click on photos - Ive posted pics there of the front, side and one of me grabbing my gut (just to show you its not mere bloating)!!! You can see how protruding this is, and it was about half this size before I started!!..and I havent eaten carbs for over a week!??!

I am really frustrated with this guys!! I went onto the AD thinking I would at least stay lean and tight.. and my gut would not get bigger, esp only eating meat and veg!! Im totally lean everywhere else but my belly!!..But as you can see, I have lost definition, and my body looks as bloated as it did when I was gorging on a carb based diet!!..!?!

Ive been eating - 3000kcals per day, 300g protein, 200g fat and less than 30g CHO for last 7 days. All in accordance with % recommendations of the AD. I am happy to post some sample diet days if that gives more help?

Bulgarian - I wanted to know why you recommend I eat less protein??..Im taking the 35% level as recommended by the AD (300g protein per day). Why would lowering this be beneficial? My weight tends to fluctuate up and down only by a couple of pounds each day.

REALLY need some clarification here guys! - also should I do my carb up this coming weekend???...or wait until I know I am fat adapted??...C-O-N-F-U-S-E-D!!!! :(

Hope you can all help!!

Cheers

~M~

Psyllium husk fiber, stat!

I'd recommend a Fiber supplement to keep things movin! Also, PWO might want to bump up the glutamine if you can handle it to replenish glycogen stores.

Nah, like I said it's all theoretics at this point. I'm laying things out for the future. So swap the Ketchup out for Tobasco. Where would you reccomend I drop the protein out of?

Also, would mixing my PWO shake w/ Calorie Countdown Chocolate Milk be kosher?

****MY AD DIET FOR LAST 7 DAYS****

Hey Bulgarian- thanks for the reply... hope my pics didnt freak you out!! lol

Here is my EXACT diet for the last 7 days (dates at top)..the formatting sucks on this forum, but Im sure you can follow each line across reading Calories (C), Protein (P), Fat (F), and Carbs (CHO). The totals are at the bottom.

Let me know you thoughts.. (off to bed now!)

Really appreciate your HARD advice and feedback!!.. I gotta get to grips with this!!!

Cheers

~M~
..........>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

24th March
Kcal/ Protein/ Fat/ CHO
4 eggs 332 25 23 2.2
100g Mackeral 177 18 11 0
1tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

Pork Fillet 500 45 28 0

1 can Mackeral 195 29 8 0
1tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0
4 sausages 720 45 55.6 9
75g Kale 39 1.4 2.3 4

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
50g Cottge Chse 50 7 2 2
1tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

7 fish caps 83 0 7 0
3 Flax caps 27 0 3 0

TOTALS: C-2635/P-196.4/F-185.1/CHO-17.5
============================================
25th March
Kcal/ Protein/ Fat/ CHO
4 eggs 455 33 35 2.2
100g Mackeral 177 18 11 0
1tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

250g Lamb Mince 625 43 50 0
50g Kale 89 2.4 4.2 7.5
Broccolli50g 27 1.2 1.3 3.5

2 Sausages 360 23 28 0
Corgette 1/2
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

250g Lamb Mince 625 43 50 0
50g Kale 89 2.4 4.2 7.5
50g Broccolli 27 1.2 1.3 3.5

30g Butter 215 0.3 24 0
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0
2 Caps Fish Oil 18 0 3 0

1 can tuna 136 32.5 0.65 0

TOTALS: C-3245/P-200/F-257.65/CHO-24.2

+============================================
26th March
Kcal/ Protein/ Fat/ CHO

4 eggs 332 25 23 2.2
150G Mackeral 266 27 17 0
1tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

400G Pork Steaks 969 120 51 0
Tuna chunks 15 8 0 0

250g Lamb Mince 625 43 50 0
Pepper 20 1 0 5
Corgette
50g Cottage Cheese 50 7 2 2

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

TOTAL: C-2899/P-283/F-188.4/CHO-9.8

====================================================
27th March
Kcal/ Protein/ Fat/ CHO
4 eggs 332 25 23 2.2
150g Mackeral 266 27 17 0
1tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

250g Lamb Mince 625 43 50 0
Pepper 20 1 0 5
Corgette
50gSpinach 8 1 0 2.4
`00g Cheese 412 26 32 0

1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
50ml Whipping Cream 185 1 19 1

50g Cheese 206 13 16 0
100g Spinach 19 2.2 0 0.8
340g Lamb Meatballs 928 55 72 17

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

TOTAL: C-3733/ P-272.2/F-274.6/CHO-29.3
========================================================
28th March
Kcal/ Protein/ Fat/ CHO

5 eggs 415 31 29 2.2
200g Prawns 140 30 1 0
3 Fish Caps 36 0 3 0

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
50ml Whipping Cream 185 1 19 1

Rump steak 560 90 20 0
greens 15 2 1 4
scrambled eggs 100 13 10 1.5

cuppa tea
1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3

2 salmon steaks 332 56 10 0
Spinach+ Corgette 19 2 1 5

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
50ml Whipping Cream 185 1 19 1
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

TOTAL: C-2829/ P-330/F-158.8/CHO-15.9

=====================================================
29th March
Kcal/ Protein/ Fat/ CHO
5 eggs 415 31 29 2.2
1 can tuna 147 36 0.3 0
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

Beef Mince 375g 717 83 41 0
100g Spinach 38 4 2.4 5
100g Green Beans 50 1.4 2.8 6.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

5 eggs- RAW!! 415 31 29 2.2

375g Beef Mince 717 83 41 0
100g Spinach 38 4 2.4 5
100g Green Beans 50 1.4 2.8 6.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0


TOTAL: C-3477/ P-326.8/F-226.1/CHO-27.6
=====================================================
30th March
Kcal/ Protein/ Fat/ CHO
5 eggs 415 31 29 2.2
1 can tuna 147 36 0.3 0
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

6 caps cod liver oil 70 0 6 0
3 caps flax seed 27 0 3 0

450g Turkey Mince 648 81 36 0
Red Pepper 23.8 2 1 6
Lettuce
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0

400g Chicken Breast 782 118 30 0
75g Green beans 44 1 2 6
75g Brussel Sprouts 41 2 2 5

4 caps cod liver oil 35 0 4 0
2 caps flax seed 18 0 2 0

1 Shake 110 26 0.2 0.3
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0
1 tbsp EVOO 134 0 15 0


TOTAL: C-3542.8/P-323/ F-235.7/CHO-19.8
========================================================

Max, I just PM'd you, but I just read your post afterwards.

I would really like to see shots of you beforehand if any exist.

My eyes tell me all of that 'loss of definition' is pure fat. I am also increasingly curious of how much weight you've gained since beginning and what your caloric intake looked like before.

Evil presents a good question and adds to the point I made in my message. How hard are you working in the gym? I feel like this is a problem for more 'regular Joes' who frequent this site because I kind of expect a certain standard when talking to guys on here. I see Bulgarian's contest pics and I know I can talk to him about say, training legs and we're on the same page instead of me talking about a heavy leg workout consisting of 30min of stair stepping with pink dumbbells and he's talking about 20 rep front squats with 365lbs as if they're remotely similar.

Hi guys,

I've decided to give Thibs Regressive Ketogenic Cycle a try for 4 weeks before committing to a program like the Anabolic Diet.

I'll be coming in here checking in and asking for your advice on my type I and II days, which are comprised of all protein and fat. Type III days are carb allowed, but quite limited as compared to the carb-up days on the AD.

Have any of you guys given this one a chance? It looks pretty progressive and I can't seem to find many testimonials so I've decided to be somewhat of a trail blazer.

Check it out.

http://www.T-Nation.com/...ogram_dominance

Thanks for your advice guys and keep the AD brotherhood strong!

Max, you have gotten some great advice so far. Stick with it and get the fiber so you can pass all that food you are holding which will reduce the bloat. I'm sorry to say you are not 12% body fat. Stay with this diet though and you will get there. I agree that protein is too high for your weight and how much lean mass you are actually carrying.

Too much protein can be converted to glucose. Drop that down to like 250 grams at least.

G'day Everyone,

I'm been following the Anabolic Diet for twelve weeks now in an attempt to become leaner. Initially my progress was quite good, however, I hit a plateau approximately five weeks ago and I have been unable to progress since (i.e. my waist measurement has remained the same and there appears to be no difference in my photos). I have been trying to read through all of the original thread (i.e. part one) for ideas (I'm only up to page #55), but I think I've tried nearly everything.

I've kept my calories in the recommended range (10-12x bodyweight) whilst cycling them daily, I've kept the carbohydrate intake under 30g, I've reduced my fat intake to 50% of the total calories, and I've even reduced my carb-up to a single day (although, admittedly the food choices can get out of hand). I guess the next logical step would be to ensure my carb-up consists of clean foods (i.e. no junk food).

Failing that, I would have to look at reducing my calorie intake to Radical Diet limits (i.e. 1200 calories per day maximum) and introducing regular cardiovascular exercise (although I wanted to avoid this to try and maintain as much lean body mass as possible). On the flip side, it might even be worth while increasing my calories, I'm unsure. Maybe I just need to switch diets.

I've been determined to see myself through this plateau. However, five weeks with no progress has really made it hard for me to stay committed to the Anabolic Diet. I desperately want to become lean enough that I can start bulking without guilt, but I don't know if I will ever get to that stage. I've been able to make the Anabolic Diet a part of my lifestyle, but it will mean nothing if I'm not making any progress.

Anyway, any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Hey Bulgarian, NZ, Evil1, DJS...

Thanks for the support..Thought I would reply to all of you at once - (but have PM;d a couple guys already!)

Here are my replies to the main points raised>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

FIBRE - I've now got some Psyllium Husk, so will get that down me every day pronto!!

BODYFAT -With regards to my bodyfat..I have some damned Tanita bodyscales that tell me one thing on athlete mode, and another thing on 'normal mode'...so lets ditch that reading then!! Im gonna let go of this in favour of diet and exercise for now!!

EXERCISE - Okay, here I have to admit, I might be falling short. I do focus on compound exercises (squats, deadlift, pull-ups, barbell rows etc..) as well as other routines, and try and do pyramid reps.

ONE BIG ISSUE is energy during workouts! I havent felt the miracle energy rush on the AD so far, and hence my stamina in the gym could be better. I generally eat a hearty meal (at least 600kcals) 1.5hrs before training, I drink lots of water, but still lack explosive power. Coffee is out..so any suggestions here??

........
Evil1 - I will check the protein shakes for fillers, and prob cut these down too

Also, what is the issue with taking cod liver oil caps and flax caps seperately?

NZ - Ive lost weight since the AD started (a couple of kilos!), hence the concern about the build up of fat on the gut, which is certainly more so since 7 days ago.

Bulgarian - I would would appreciate your expertise, and help on devising a good diet plan after my carb up. I will PM you. :)

DJS - After doing all that reading on fat, I ignored the effects of too much protein, and will heed the advice to drop it. Cheers

Cheers guys...keep you posted.

~M~

B85, you're right where I am mentally.
I've been following CT's War Room Strategies for Fat Loss (on final week today) and just jumped over to Berardi's Get Shredded Diet as it's quite similar to AD principles.

Once the cardio/HOT-ROX/1600cal mixture was in, my results started coming.

I will mention that I'm refeeding after 9 days instead of 14. I feel my lowering of protein was pivotal. I also feel like hardcore strength training 2x a week with the other sessions being geared for fat loss was great too since I could recover more thoroughly and perform more truly.

I also try to add all the NEPA I can.

Should I assume that while ADing that protein MRPs should be avoided in lieu of whole food whenever possible?

Max
Just some advice from someone who has been on the AD for about 2 years and has no patience, give it 12 weeks. You are tracking everything way too close, especially your body comp. I know, you sound just like I did early on. I was always on the scale and measuring every spot on me. Spread it out to a week or two, that is often enough to see and make changes without driving yourself crazy obcessing(sp?) over every little detail.

Adaption takes time. The diet works, all diets work if you exercise and have a caloric deficit. The AD is special, you are eating above your maintenance level for your body and exercise level, most diets will make you fat very fast doing that, the AD doesn't.

I dropped about 25% of my body weight(pure fat) on the AD lifting 3 times per week and doing long walks 5 times per week. If I dropped back on my exercise, which I did for a year, I stopped losing fat, but I never gained a pound and my waist still slowly went down(slowly!!!). When I added 2 short interval sessions to my workout, the fat would fall off. This diet requires effort on your part, but not near as much as other diets.

Right now I am only lifting 2 times per week full body and doing no cardio. I am gaining weight, but my waist is not growing, my belt is my measuring stick, muscle comes on easy too with the AD if that is what you want as well.
Sorry to go off on a rant, but when I am not lazy, the AD works wonders for me. When I am lazy(most of the time), it keeps me from gaining it back, no other diet has ever done that for me.
Give it some time, it is a lifestyle, like you have read hundreds of times before in both the threads. Listen to the advice on here, it is great, but ultimately what works for you will be what works for you, just give the AD a chance(few months) I feel you will appreciate it more at that time.

New to the forums here, but long time reader and lurker. I just started this diet as it was recommended to me by a friend. So I am hoping to learn from everyone here and contribute what little experience I have.

Stupid question. When one is first starting the Anabolic Lifestyle should you wait 2 weeks before your first carb day? I just want to make sure so I don't sabotage myself.

The initial fat adaptation phase should last 12 days so your first carb up should be the second weekend. Maybe someone more experienced than myself can shed some light on the metabolic shift that is supposed to occur.

The only thing thats keeping from jumpin back on the AD ( was on for 3 years joined original thread on page like 30 ionno) is Chris Shugarts regards of the AD. Originally a participant, he jumped off for "proper" W/O nutrition. Now, I tried fuel and I've never felt so alive in the gm, also I gained a shit load of strength using Berardi's PN system. And another thing the AD is super expensive! Ya see Im big into grass-fed beef turkey bacon chicken sausage and the rest. Thats all expensive!

But the biggest thing is Workout nutrition. I believe the AD protocol worked out best with the power lifters because of there supp. intake and training style so the whole hormone thing worked fro them best. But if someone can convince this AD retiree to re-enter and drop my Fuel and Recovery then do it! And really I think it'd take up to date info

Evil, how do you like GVT? Once I'm done dieting, I'm planning on taking on CT's OVT since I really liked the idea behind GVT but saw some huge improvements.

I'm inferring you ALWAYS use GVT?? Do you never rotate your training principles/phases? How has this worked out for you?

Scott Abel just put up a good thing on training legs like, last week. The leg extension exercise using a bench blew my mind.

You could look up some other program...y'know I couldn't even describe it for you. I'll see if I run across it...

It was basically like, geared towards bringing up lagging parts and detailing everything. It had two major components to it. I never used it, and I can barely remember it, but it should be somewhere in the archives of training within the last year.

As for that mantra, I'm too concerned with putting some meat on my bones before worrying about their shape.

Well, I cheated on my diet today for the first time in twelve weeks. The lack of progress finally took a toll on my mental ability to stay dedicated. I have stuffed myself with an abundance of simple carbohydrates. As a consequence, I feel terrible emotionally and physically.

I'm going to start another induction period tomorrow, with the low carbohydrate period lasting nine days (Thursday-Saturday) and the carbohydrate loading taking place on the tenth day (Sunday).

I'm so confused as to why I hit a plateau. I don't know if I ran my metabolism into the ground during the weekdays with low calorie intake, or if I was over-feeding on the weekends whilst carbohydrate loading. Clearly, I don't know as much about the Anabolic Diet as I thought I did, and that's what worries me.

Yeah Peanut Butter is so delicious...but pretty carby in large amounts! What are some better nut butters with low carb amounts to gorge on?

I'm going to try a shake composed of heavy cream, BP, and casein protein. It sounds good on paper!

I'd just like to say that I couldn't even believe how delicious a glass of heavy cream was until I tried it haha.

Two refeeds ago I remember scouring for food to eat (to make the most of my day) and we have a roommate we hate...who happened to have heavy cream in a little carton. I'm dieting, I don't have heavy cream! I saw this, and my eyes lit up...

He was unable to find his heavy cream after that. "Who would drink heavy cream??" What a crazy thought, indeed.

now bcaa's are essential and i think should be taken. Especially leucine. My bcaa's infact contain 4:1:1 ratio of leucine,valene and isoleucine. From my understanding, bcaa's especially leucine stimulate insulin release significantly even more so than carbohydrates. The thing is though the insulin will shuttle the nutritents in your muscles, in our case amino acids but since the bcaa's are not actually brocken down in sugar, our blood sugar drops and we feel drowsy for a bit or really exhausted.

That is how i felt after following what DH posted above. It lasts only about half an hour. We are not actually switching back to carbs here we are just stimulating insulin release through a different mechanism. I saw great results when i followed the above ratios, i only do that when im cutting down for a show though. When i eat 4500 calories i get plenty of everything from my foods.

That is my understanding, not very scientific but you guys can chime in and correct me if i have something mistaken

Hey guys!,

I coming up to my first carb up on Saturday!!

Ive read quite a bit about how to structure this... 60% carbs, 30% Fat, 10% Protein etc, and am aware I should only eat 'clean carbs' - rice, pasta, fruits etc, and avoid the junk as much as possible!!

My only frustration is that I havent had the elusive energy rush from the AD yet. So Im concerned that any energy boost I get on Saturday will be a direct result of the carb-up, and trick me into thinking the AD is now really kicking in. I want to prime myself to run high octane on fat..not the rush of CHO!! So wondering whether to delay the carb-up?

Now DiPasq says not to count the calories during the carb up - just gorge like a mofo until you smooth out, or bloat like a wild boar!!... any counter to this notion?

Also, any experienced tips on what to do & def not do on the carb up?

Cheers

~M~

Max, I think I kind of mentioned this in one of our PM's. You don't have to NOT COUNT, but don't let numbers tell you how you feel.

Let your body tell you what feels good and such, while merely using the numbers as a separated observation, relating the feelings/experience to data.

As for this PWO stuff, the first thing I think reading DH's post is that frequently using that amount of BCAA is absurdly expensive. For that reason alone, I'd prefer to buy my maltodextrin and dextrose in bulk, 20lbs for the same price that would yield me about 5 of those servings of BCAA.