Alright, Since starting the AD on July 4 here is where I am. My goal is to lose fat, keep/build strength. My main training is Brazillian Jiu Jitsu and complementary activities.

I've not paid much attention to calories. My carb ups are 36 hours and not too clean. I just took a week and a half off of training (coming off neck surgery so I have to take it easy sometimes). Though I try to eat every 3 hrs I eat a lot of food and I eat it whenever I want, or whenever I feel hungry.

I'm down to 204 consistently from 217.
I feel better too.

I don't find it difficult to stay on, I don't crash and don't really have cravings. When I eat a lot of carbs on the weekends I some times have GI 'disturbances'. I think this weekend it was from too much milk, which DH recommends you drop.

I'm doing no cardio outside of jiu jitsu. In the past I've gotten good results with the heavy bag version of High octane cardio. Soon I'll have a bag at my new place and I expect the last bit of fat to come off easier when I'm actually working out.

Overall I love the diet.

fiber update:

I've found some Low-Carb tortillas at Costco of all places, and the ingredients are all natural, they even use whole wheat flour! The best part is that each one has 7 grams of fiber in it and only 6 grams of carb-carbs in it. It's a pretty sweet deal if you ask me, throw one or two of these into your diet and you'll be AOK. Suggestions, quesadillas or steak burrito with lots of cheese, and of course a lunch-wrap type of thing.

Lately I've been keeping the diet strict enough that I'm good with downing two of these tortillas a day and having no problem staying at 30 grams of carbs a day. Hope this helps some of ya

not to one up you, but if look for whole wheat tortillas made by "La Tortilla Company". 8g fiber, 3g "carbs". good deal.

This is my first day on the AD and I feel good, infact I think I feel more energetic. However, this is not why I'm posting. I knew after reading the posts on this thread that the AD would be expensive. I don't think though, that I fully grasped how much it would cost until I actually started the diet. Looking at the kinds and amount of food I need to consume I've come to the conclusion that this diet is out of my reach financially as a member of a large family.

Anyway, thanks to Ramo, Charles, and veduseva for helping me out. If things losen up a little bit down the road I'll definately come back and read your guy's advice again.

Fascinating reading some of these accounts, I think I may experiement with the diet.
May I ask a question though, what athletes have used it. I'm a rugby player currently in my off season wondering if this will help me improve athletic performance, i.e muscle mass and with my activities.

Springcoil, several of the athletes of WSB have successfully employed the AD.

H.D., I find the AD to be LESS expensive than many nutritional approaches.

Olive oil is inexpensive and will serve as an excellent fat source. Chicken continues to drop in price. I'm finding boneless chicken breast for as low as 1.28/lb; buy in bulk. And while beef continues to increase in cost, it can also be purchased in bulk. I suggest going to the meat department in the evenings and speaking with a manager. I'm able to purchase beef for as low as a 1/lb. Veggie prices range a bit... Your carb-ups aren't too bad. Pasta is very reasonable in price, as is oatmeal.

This is a bland approach, but very sufficient in making the AD work for your body and wallet.

Springcoil - I race BMX and downhill mountain bikes (BMX is atp/cp, downhill is anaerobic threshold-intensive) and have felt absolutely no adverse effcts on my training and riding whatsoever. The key is to committing to the diet 100% so that your bod gets used to using triglycerides to fuel your training and not glycogen. If you half ass it and eat carbs throughout the week, you'll undermine your body's attempts to run on fat yet not supply yourself with enough carbs to run efficiently on glycogen either.

From one anaerobic athlete to another - try it, it WILL work if you adhere to it.

You're right about eggs, CA. They are cheap. And the great thing is that you can buy those in bulk, too. I'm all about bulk shopping. I consume anywhere from 2800 to 5600 calories/day during the week, and am taking in between 10-12 thousand calories on the weekend; that's alot of food.

I learned before the AD to be a smart shopper and make friends at the grocery stores. It's amazing how readily folks will reduce the price if you buy a certain quantity, or if you're willing to pick the food up after 10 PM, or place standing orders -- stuff like that.

Really, my expense is in the fish oil, liver tabs, and ALA. But I purchase those products in bulk, too. If it sounds intimidating to front the money, find a friend to split the cost.

Oh yeah, and the natty PB isn't cheap, but it's my "must-have" food on the weekends.

Get creative folks!

Do the Fish Oil caps you guys use have a hidden gram of CHO in the capsule. Do you count this if it does?

DH, what's your mug doing on the Grow! Bars Return thread....you are everywhere man!

http://www.t-nation.com/...ic.do?id=566966

Just look at the end of the lead article...you just love being a pretty boy don't you?

Geesh!

-BD

Well salute Union Jack and serve me up a slice o' blood pie, we've got a Brit on the AD thread. I love foreigners. Massif is an Aussie and now we've got a fellow from the Kingdom. ;-). If we just had someone from the Emerald Island we could all break out into song at a Pub!

I've also seen them called Pork Cracklins'.

DH

I grew up calling fried piggy skins "pork rinds".

Well, this will be the third day of my short nightly fast. Honestly, I expected to drop a little scale weight over the fast, but no such luck. I find myself having to drink tons of water though, so I may be making it up on the scale.

I also think I need to bump up my kcals, really try to take in my days supply in the 8-10 hours or so I have.

Tomarrow is a carb up, so I'm also thinking that boosting fat cals a little today might not be so bad, as it will tend to increase fatty acid oxidation.

That's my thoughts so far.

Shucks BD,
I'm thinkin if I don't get some royalties on this'un I havta round up Pa and the boys and take care of the Ponderosa's own. Reckon' T-mag catches my drift. ;-).

DH

well fellas I've been a bit too busy to post here but i wanted to put a spin on my happenings.
I've been monitoring my macronutrient profile pretty closely, and I've really got a hold on this and I'm still dropping BF. During the week I'm around 50g carbs a day- 250g of protein, and a varying 100g of fat (from all the sources I've mentioned earlier) a day. The weekend loads starts and ends on Sunday- where I don't count calories or carbs- But the pasta/whey combo has been working well.

in shy of 2 months I've dropped 2inches from my waist and maintained my approx 1670 total (not that I'm counting! LOL)

One theme I've read here is troubleshooting the diet when performance is lagging - whether it be feeing like crap or bottoming out during the week.
One thing I've realized with this is that if you feel like crap during the week- your energy is low, etc You need to concentrate on manipulating your fats- and take my advice (because It has worked wonders since I've done it) go to your local store, and buy the udo's/coconut/various nut oil blends. It makes all the difference in the world, you will feel great all the time, and your metabolism will thank you!

Let's support our low carb bro Owen70 here, and stop by his blog of the UD 2.0. I'd say he deserves it for his good advice and earlier chop bustin's ;-).

DH

With respect to increased fat intake, please note the following:

I use/suggest:

20% polyunsats (Not much more)
of this, 3+ g of EPA/DHA combo is a must

30% sat fats as they are needed for elevated T levels and strength.

50% mono fats as these are the primo quality fats that have many health benefits and do well for strength and hormones also.

We want our poly's to be lowest but well considered. Even moderate levels of PUFA's will drop T levels among other undesirable effects. A true case of too much of a good thing.

Best,
DH

And I noticed that I get the distinction of being # 800 on the thread. Ha, Ha. I was 700 too! These early Saturday mornings work out great while all you lazy suckers are in bed!

Deinabolic,
There's no problems with also upping Sats and Monos to an equal level once the necessary precautions are covered with proper PUFA's like fish oil. Even higher if you like. This should really be predicated on age, health, family history, etc... By getting a good 30% as a minimum you should be cool with having plenty of T material. I'll usually eat about 250g per day of fat. Of this I get about 40g of PUFA, 120g MUFA, and 90g of SFA (sat fats).

As you can see I don't get too nit picky about it as long as MUFA and PUFA are up to snuff. Plus I rely heavily on olive oil for calories with my shakes, salads, and meats. Good for the cholesterol and much more. For my PUFA, my main sources are omega eggs, seeds, nuts, fish oil, some flax oil, and add-ins here and there. Sunflower seeds, walnuts, and almonds (as well as natty peanut butter and almond butter) are all some of my biggest sources beyond the oils (fish and flax)

Just think sensible ranges instead of exact amounts. No sense getting anybody crazy.

Best,
DH

How important is the carb up? I have been low carb for a while now and am fat adapted so I always feel pretty good on almost no carbs a day. after reading this thread I have tried the carb up several times and it has made me mentally foggy, causes g.i. distress, i get a headache the next morning when I wake up and i feel lethargic. will this go away after a few months of practicing the carb refeed?

Thanks CA, interesting read. I wish they'd substantiate their findings with numbers, but the general public the article ewas written for wouldn't understand or care.

Had a good PM on an individual using 10mg 6x per day on the load and losing his appetite. This has happened to me as well. Below is what I responded with.

--------

VS is a strange animal. On the one hand it can give a wicked pump and help with supercompensation, on the other hand there is reason to think that one might lessen the insulin response of the loading period if we are using a mineral compound that does it's job in it's place. Also VS is something to watch if you are not pretty lean to begin with. There really hasn't been any insulin mimicker or glucose disposal agent that has been show to partition to muscle and not fat. Insulin (and it's consequent mimickers etc..) increases the storage in muscle and fat. Now on the AD we see improved partitioning due to the fat adaptation. I do not know if the same can be said with VS. I like the way it gives a good pump, especially Vanadyl PH, but I try to use it for a short while and then take a good while off. The research I've seen shows that VS can be a tricky animal, and there is still debate about it's mode of action. I'd say that if your appetite is diminished then the VS is working too well and is keeping insulin under control which will signal satiety. This isn't good as insulin has anabolic and general properties that aren't mimicked by VS (probably many more than we know, too). As an alternative to VS, I've played with some slo-Niacin. This acts as a vasodilator which should in turn allow for more nutrient transfer during the load. Dosage is highly individual and should be started on the recommended low end and moved up slowly. I like ALA because it increases your body's own sensitivity to the actions of endogenous insulin. This would have more of an optimizing/priming effect. I don't feel the same pump as with VS, but I think it may be the better long term option. I also try to use things like vitamin E, Magnesium, biotin, etc.. that will maximize the utilization of insulin naturally. I've tried metformin too, and it was a really powerful pump, but of course it hasn't been show to be selective enough to not worry about fat gain, and there are potential leptin issues that could alter fat/carb burning. And again, anytime something is doing the job of insulin, we are theoretically missing out on the many known and unknown benefits of the real deal. I've also found that adequate sodium intake on the load leads to a better pump and fullness. I sometimes begin my load with chicken noodle soup, saltines, gatorade, and some tomatoes with salt or V8 juice. If I get the dosage right, my arms begin to feel pumped within an hour or so. Creatine should also help with the cell volumizing anabolic triggers that we are attempting to capitalize on during the load. So with respect to VS, I'm torn. It's Ok to use from time to time, but the other products would pay off better dividends in the long run in many ways.

best,
DH

Thank you, DH. Good information.

I'm a BIG fan of ALA. I use 200-300/meal during the week and double that dosage on the weekends. It is a cost-effective, and powerful supplement to add to the arsenal.

During the week, I use liver tabs with every meal to get additional B6 to aid in the metabolism of amino acids and fatty acids.

During the carb-up, I switch to a B-complex. I take it with every meal. Perhaps this is a bit wasteful, but I feel that the aid it provides in the metabolism of CHO is worth it.

But VS has been tricky... I'm not sure about it. Again, thank you for the useful information.

to quote Thunder, a BBer who used to post here and other sites...

"vanadyl sulfate seems to work extremely well in about 25%, not at all in 25%, and so-so for 50%"

so i guess if you got money to burn, and are <12% BF, go for it.

it seems to do nothing people who arent lean already though. I know kelly baggett likes it.

If I understand correctly,the carb up is extremely important. Without it you are on Atkins not on the Anabolic Diet.


D

Vas, do you happen to be using standard ALA or r-ALA? Also did you mean 200-300mg per day or, as stated, with each meal? Most suggest 600mg to perhaps 1g daily in divided doses. What has been your experience?

Best,
DH

I love the good quality liver tabs, man. They are an essential up there with protein poweder, vits/mins and fish oil for me.

If anyone is interested, I'm thinking of putting Bill Starr's nutrient suggestions into action to test them out. He had some pretty large dosages of certain nutrients for his players on the 5x5 system and claims that it made a big difference in strength and stamina at certain levels. Anybody want to join me in an experiment and see how we fare in 3-4 weeks? We're all needing some nutrient support on the AD anyway, might as well see what's optimal. Takers? I'll post his stuff this week if we get a few heads to join the quest. This thread offers a really effective opportunity for "group think" and a large pool of experiential knowledge. Used properly, we could all gain alot from each other.

Vasu, DH

What are the benefits of supplementing with ALA? It is supposed to convert to EPA and DHA, I am already taking in about 6g of EPA and DHA in addition to about 5 servings of flaxseeds which is another 7.5g of EPA/DHA taking 30% conversion.Is it worth taking ALA in addition to the above. BTW, I came across this thread the other day about the FDA putting an 3g upper limit of EPA/DHA consumption. What are your views on this?

Also, what benefits have you seen after supplementing with Liver tabs?

Thanks
D

PS - Vasu, are you from India?

I agree that good quality liver tabs are essential. I'm pretty sure we have the same source. I used to travel to Cold Springs to have my progress monitored. Good folks.

I'm interested to read Starr's nutrient suggestions. If they looked reasonable to me, I would be willing to join in an experiment for a month or so.

I've used s-ALA and r-ALA and found no substantial difference in effectiveness. However, I worked with the standard understanding that ALA products contain a 50/50 mixture of the two, and generally require a higher dosage than stand alone r-ALA. So, when I experimented with dose amount, I took this into account. I've read that s-ALA might interfere with r-ALA absorption, but really, the literature is conflicted. Bottom line, s-ALA is more cost effective despite the increased dosage required to get the same amount of r-ALA.

As originally stated, I use 200-300/meal during the week and 400-600/meal during the weekend. In my literature review, 1200/day (in divided doses) was found to be optimal; this is what I aim for during the week and consider it very safe.

I opted to increase the amount of ALA consumed during the weekends because of the increase in CHO intake. This is a very individual number. The risk is hypoglycemia.

I monitored my blood glucose levels while experimenting with different doses. I discovered that the higher dose was VERY effective in keeping my blood glucose levels stable despite the significant increase in CHO.

Looking for some advice from some AD vets.

I'm on my 4th week of AD and its been clear sailing for the most part. I'm starting a carb up today and finishing tommorow (Monday).

But I have a two-day camping trip coming up next weekend (fri-sat) and when I'm camping I like to stick to carbs mostly cuz
a) its more convenient
b) i burn a s***load of calories
So I'm wondering what the best approach to timing my low carb days in situations like this, where a carb load might fall prematurely (this carb load would be 2 days earlier than I would have done it). I'm sure this situation will come up again and has for many of you.

Is it best to:
a) skip a carb load and have a longer low-carb period
b) dont sweat it, a few low-carb cycles that only last 3-4 days are no big deal
c) have a shorter carb load than usual this week
d) some other option?

Luddini,

I'm no authority on the AD but want to give my $.02 on a few things you brought up:

1) When camping, will you have your vehicle nearby or do you have to pack in all your supplies? If the former, pack two separate coolers - one for one day and one really iced down for the second - and you should have no problems having P/F food handy. For quickie snacks away from camp, take some vienna sausages or tuna pouches and nuts with you. Canned Rotel and mushrooms are easy vegetable sources and you can keep a spinach/dark lettuce salad chilled in a tupperware container.

2) Get out of the mindset that if you're going to burn a "****load" of cals that you need carbs. Simply eat more food - particularly some extra oils - for increased caloric demands. The whole foundation of this diet is shifting your metabolism over to burning triglycerides so take advantage of it.

3) I'll quickly defer to DH or any other of the experts but I doubt the world will end if you carb up one week on Fri/Sat instead of Sat/Sun. Just resume low carbs on Sunday and carry it through the following Friday.

Hope this helps. FWIW about point #2, I train/compete in several types of ATP/CP and anaerobic threshold biking and have had absolutely no adverse effects from running on P/F, no matter how hard/long my days were. You'll be fine.

Three things:

1. DH said he'll be posting HIS peri-workout nutrition protocol to the thread shortly. Good stuff.

2. Mdragon you still alive? This is your thread and all. How's your progress?

3. Any interesting stories from the weekend carb-ups out there? Swolen duck lips? Coma-like naps?

O.k. - I've read all 33 pages of this thread and am intrigued. Got all the basics + some. Would like some opinions on a couple of things:

I'm a firefighter and have a 2nd job doing lawn servicing and have a deck and fence co, on the side, so I stay busy. I've been doing the "Renaissance Body Development" program for a couple of weeks now (found it suited best for my job). Looking gain strength with some size.

Would the AD work well for this? Earlier in the thread someone asked about women using the AD and I don't remember any responses, any info on that? Thanks for your time and thoughts.

I got through my first carb up weekend and am feeling good today. My workout on Saturday was pump city. I also experienced no crash to speak of. But I do have a question on the carb load. How much are you supposed to up your total cal level? I'm already eating 3600-4000 cals depending on how hungry I am throughout the week, and have trouble eating that many carbs on the weekend.

dxbdude:

Vasudeva is the name of a character from a Herman Hesse novel.

Alpha lipoic acid (ALA) is COMPLETELY different than what is found in flaxseed oil. You're thinking of the omega-3 fatty acid alpha linolenic acid (ALNA). ALA is an enzyme. It is a first-rate antioxidant. It is water and fat soluble. It is highly absorbable within the body. It also stabilizes blood glucose levels.

I predominately supplement with olive oil, but do consume 4g of EPA/day and 2.5g of DHA/day. In regard to FDA recommendations, I would listen to your body.

PtrDR:

I never did crash. Not everyone does. And don't worry about ketosis. As long as your macro-nutrient ratios are on target, you'll be fine. Doc D actually thinks it a poor strategy to enter into ketosis. My headaches were a result of two things: 1) Too much sodium. I simply increased my potassium intake; and 2) My blood glucose levels were very low. I wasn't consuming enough CHO.

JohnnyChainsaw:

I consume between 2850 calories/day to 5800 calories/day during the week, but bump my calories up to 10-12 grand calories/day on the weekends. I estimate my weekly needs and experiment from there. I posted on page 31 Doc D's recommendations for total daily caloric intake. They were:

Gain = (25xBdywt)
Strength = (17-25xBdywt)
Cut = (subtract 300-500 calories from your daily total per week until desired outcome)

How much you increase or decrease your total caloric intake is dependent upon your goal and approach in applying the AD. What is your goal?

Well, I'm on day 8 of the diet and I have this bad taste and feeling in my mouth. What the hell?
Also- I realized after reading the last page that I was taking in too much flax and fish oil. What are the negative effects of this? Other than that, no major crash yet and my strenth has been stable. Just a little foggy today. I'm finding it hard to reach the recommended protein intake without going over the 30g of CHO per day. Gotta work on that. Looking forward to the carb up this weekend.

Btw Hoss- I just got Starr's liver tabs in the mail. What dosage per day do you recommend and how do you divide it during the day? There is no dosage info on the jar.
Thanks- Matt

Is it a sweet taste, or more of an ammonia taste+smell? I dunno what ketosis "tastes" like, but when I was doing distance running I used to taste\smell ammonia in the back of my throat. This is a classic sign of an extremely negative nitrogen balance, when your body is breaking down it's own amino acids, (i.e muscle tissue) because you are not getting enough. I don't know if this is anything like what you are going through, the "I'm finding it hard to get enough protein" comment caught my eye.
-CA.

As a matter of interest, what do you guys typically eat on your weekend carb-up?

FS,
This is the king of diets. Works for any active person. Gender is not an issue. Many women don't eat as much meat, but you can easily get some powder, low carb milk, eggs, cheese, cream, olive oil etc.. and not have to choke down bunches of meat. Just expect the adaptation process to likely be rough. It will often test your resolve. Some do make it through easily but they are in the minority. Once adapted, welcome to the best thing going.

DH

It passes with time. About 2-3 months sometimes. I never experience it anymore. After a few loads, you hold the glycogen much better and start to really get long term adaptation. Use some tic-tacs, sugarless gum and mouthwash. Think there are some veggies and/or plants that can be used to help this too.

Order grilled veggies as a substitute for the taters, bro. You'll look manly and your enhanced physique in a few months will pay dividends. ;-0.

DH

Are y'all counting calories during your carb-ups? I was until last saturday, and when I just ate a ton of carb-y things I got a pretty noticable pump. I'm thinking of going fairly low calorie on the weekdays and sunday, (say 2500-3000) and eating a ton on saturdays, until that "pump" goes away. What do you think? Should I go for the whole weekend?

PtrDR:

If I'm understanding Doc D correctly, then you should keep your percentages during the week between 40-60% Fat, 40-50% Pro, and 4-10% Cho.

He suggests to experiment with high and low sugar foods and percentages of fat intake on the weekends. But he doesn't give a strict guideline other than 20-40% Fat, 15-30% Pro, and 35-60% Cho.

Doc D does write that some folks find success with a high Cho/higher Fat during the weekend. He suggests 40-45% Fat, 50-55% Cho, and 7-10% Pro.

However, he does not recommend this approach until you've been on the AD for a while.

Having said that, I suggest you begin by paying close attention to total calories. Per Doc D, "Be sure you don't start too low. You'll have plenty of time to lose that bodyfat in the right way."

Charles Atlas:

I count calories on the weekends. But really, I focus more on total weekly calories. If I set a goal of X number of calories for the week, I stagger my daily total calories -- During the week, I consume between 2850 calories/day to 5800 calories/day. On the weekend, I consume between 10-12 grand calories/day. I consume heavy CHO for 36 hours, and then begin to eliminate CHO from the meals in the latter half of the day, but still keep the caloric value of the remaining meals quite high.

kurmatt:

Try:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/...oodcomp/search/

It allows you to quickly find the nutritional value of just about anything you might consume.

Thanks DH - I plan on getting blood work done and finding out how well this T and chol. thing goes.

P.s. - my wife says thanks for the info.

Charles Atlas:

I predominately go by feel. If my body needs more food, I don't deny it. But generally, I consume lower calories on Monday and Thursday, moderate on Tuesday and Friday, and higher on Wednesday.

About a month ago, I worked out various meal combinations that I can consume for a given caloric total. So, if it is a lower caloric day, I know that any meal from that list is fair game. Same for the moderate and higher caloric days. I have a wide range of caloric totals from 2850 to 5800.

The weekends are a different story. I'm still experimenting. But the rule is to engorge on clean CHO.

And yes, I'm bulking, but I also demand much of my body: I utilize a modified WSB conjugate method on Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I've been dragging the sled in some capacity five days a week for the past two and half weeks. I'm also into ballroom dance; that occupies at least an hour of intense practice a day.

Between college and post-college sporting activities, and a fair number of years carrying a ruck and rifle, I think my overall GPP (especially in my lower body) is high.

Anyhow, the weekends are a challenge. I often have to force myself to get through some of the meals, and I've not relied upon CHO as a predominant percentage for some years. So, it is quite difficult to get 60% CHO because I generally don't enjoy CHO food sources.

I hear you man, I've gotten to the point that as soon as I switch to carb-loading I want to switch back to my beloved fat and protien. I will have to try the waving calories thing sometime, I don't think I will right yet, but if I stagnate while trying to cut I'll give it a shot. It seems that upping your daily cals on the weekend is the key, my question is by how much? Should they be doubled? Tripled? What do you think?
-CA

I think waving calories is potentially more effective for those cutting than those bulking. Why not remain within the prescribed macro-nutrient percentages during the week, but drop your daily caloric totals (needed for maintenance) on M/T/R/F by 50%? I would increase my calories (beyond maintenance) on Wednesday to spike your metabolism. Just make sure that those calories lost on M/T/R/F are added to your weekend carb-up.

Ahhh. Now I get it. It's more of a 2-day low, then a spike. I thought it was a continuously changing wave. Well, shit yeah I could do that. I'll try it next week, (kinda late to do it this week). Thanks for the clarification on that man, I was pretty confused.
-CA

Below is part of an exchange on cycling calories. Perhaps it will help folks...

Person A:

I just calculated the macro breakdowns for what we were just discussing. Here they are, (my maintenance cal. level is around 3500Kcal/day):

Monday - 50% deficit = 1750
Tuesday - 50% deficit = 1750
Wednesday - 50% surplus = 5250
Thursday - 50% deficit = 1750
Friday - 50% deficit = 1750
Saturday -75% surplus = 6125
Sunday - 75% surplus = 6125

vasudeva:

The above would work. The numbers come out okay. However, you might also consider:

Monday - 75% deficit = 875
Tuesday - 50% deficit = 1750
Wednesday - 50% surplus = 5250
Thursday - 75% deficit = 875
Friday - 50% deficit = 1750

Saturday and Sunday ensure that you consume 14 grand in calories over the two days. You can divide these calories any way you want. Just remember the percentages are predominately CHO, and still need to fall within Doc D's guidelines. And if you really want to complicate the wave, you can also vary the macro-nutrient percentages (per meal) you use on each day so long as you get the requisite calories and remain within Doc D's percentages for during the week.

I cannot promise this will work for you, but it gives you a good idea of what can be done to manipulate the body into shedding BF. The above places your weekly total at maintenance level, but keeps your body in caloric deficit for most of the week. Really, you'll need to figure out what best suits you, and that takes time and experimentation. But this is a good start.

Remember, too, that the lower your BF becomes, the more you will have to manipulate the numbers to maintain the LBM and shed the BF.

So this is the continuously undulating wave I referenced in a previous post. By definition, a continuous wave has a constant amplitude and frequency. So, we need to ensure the amplitude of the caloric wave is sufficient to keep the metabolism supercharged. This can be achieved by varying the caloric crests and troughs, that is, increasing or decreasing daily caloric totals. We also need to ensure the frequency of the caloric wave is appropriate to our objective of gaining or cutting. For example, if our objective was cutting, then we would decrease the frequency of caloric crests over the course of the week. We would increase the amount of duration we remained in caloric deficit. Does this make sense?

You could do your approach one week and mine the following week. You are still achieving the same weekly total, but are forcing you body to adapt.

Further, it doesn't have to be a two day trough and one day crest. It could be any combination. Experimentation is critical.

Does anyone get wicked gas during their carb-ups? I've had it bad, no matter if my carb-up is clean or no holds barred inaling everything in sight. What have you found to combat this cause I'm making myself sick!

Well at least I'm not alone! I thought I was coming down with West Nile or gout or something.

Naahh....think of it as an opportunity to maximize alone time....or at least get a few cheap laughs at your friend's/family's expense.

-BD

Hey guys, I've been reading this thread since the start and am loving it. Big thanks to all the contributors as it helps tremendously to learn from others experiences... I tried this diet last year but only for bulking and stopped for who knows what reason. All I remember is being very delighted that I could eat 4300 calories and not gain any fat. Anyways, I'm on week 9 and will most likely stay with this plan for the long term foreseeable future.

But I have a problem- For the past week or so I just can't eat as much as I could for the first couple months on this plan. Before I could inhale 4000 calories a day whether fats or starches but for some strange reason I have a hard time getting over 2000 a day! I am seriously full all day. Even after eating just 100g of meat and a little veg and olive oil I am FULL. Like stuffed. I am currently leaning out, this past week I have been striving for 2500-3500 calories a day but its just not happening.

The poop chute works great, psyllium and ground flax every day plus green veggies etc.... and 4-6 litres water a day... I have 50g protein shake with 3 tbs olive and flax oil at 6AM and I am seriously full until almost noon! This has never happened to me before in my entire life. Have you guys heard of anything like this on the AD? Other than that my results have been great, I've lost about 5 pounds of fat and about 2 pounds bodyweight... I will contribute more I promise, AD rules!
Peteman

First of all, I must say thank you to mdragon for starting this thread. And then, I must bow down to Disc Hoss and Charles Atlas, man you guys are incredible. Also thanks to Owen70 for keeping things interesting ;-)

I?ve been reading this thread for a while and have learned a lot. Here is a little something about me.

Before:
I am 36 years old, 5 feet 4 inches. I started anabolic diet on July 12, at that time I was 166 lbs. I was in really bad shape (a little fat man).

Now:
It?s been 4 weeks, now my weight is 156 lbs (lost 10 lbs) and I have lost 3 inches from my waist. Still have to lose another 10 lbs in fat.

What I am doing:
Working out six days a week, as follow:
2 days upper body weights
1 day lower body weights
3 days running (3 miles in 30 minutes each day) + abs workout

One day carb load, eating lots of carbs and fats (very little or no proteins.

What I am taking:
1. 200 grams of protein
2. 2 caps Omega 3, 6, 9
3. 2 caps Salmon and fish oils
4. GNC Mega Multi Multivitamin
5. Timed release Vitamin C (1000 mg a day)
6. Triflex (Glucosamine + Chondroitin + MSM) for bones/joints health.
7. 5 litters of water

Things are going pretty good, except:
1. Dry mouth all the time.
2. After workout muscles don?t recover soon (sometimes takes 48 hours)
3. Some nausea, especially at night

So guys, any recommendations? any supplements I should be taking? Should change anything as far as the workout is concern?

Thanks in advance.

I'm also curious about the dry mouth.
My tongue also feels a bit rough. Any ideas?

Keith

Thanks Jeff K, good points.
I dont think I am overtraining, since I could do much more but I control myself. Like running, I can easily run twice as much. Same with the weights, I don't push myself too hard.

Pre-workout nutrition could be the problem. I take 45 grams of protein half an hour before workout and 45 grams of protein half an hour after workout (with 2 omega 3,6,9 and 2 fish oils caps).

Maybe I need a pre/post workout supplement. Lets see what Disc Hoss have to say about this.

Where can I find the article on recovery optimizting activities that you mentioned?

Thanks buddy

Ok, so I will try to drink more water (maybe 6-7 liters a day). Saving the carbs for the evening sounds great, I will try that.

You mentioned taking fruits at nights, which ones you would recommend?

Thanks

You guys might want to have a look at this one too. It has some neat search/analysis tools...

http://www.nutritiondata.com/i...

Training question guys: Since I am using the diet to loose fat and maybe gain a slight amount of muscle (if possible); which program would be more conducive on this diet? OVT or Advanced GVT?

thanks!

Hey guys,

I'm 16 and currently about 4 days into the diet. I'm in the matinence stage(obviously) and my matinence is around 2250-2700cals(my wieght is 150lbs) a day. Now I dont know if this is normal but I have never been so hungry in my life! I mean REALLY hungry, like eat-a-horse-hungry, but I dont want to go over my cal limit. As it is I already push it to 2700 each day. Is it normal to be so hungry? And do you guys think I can push my cal limit, or should I just stick to the cal limit and grin and bear it? I kinda feel like I'm depriving my body, but I don't want to screw this up.

Thoughts?

Wow! My eyes are bleeding from reading every post plus the AS manual. I will be starting this on Monday, as I have somewhat hit the diet wall, and I just love a big juicy steak.

Earlier, I posted a big thread, "Starkdog the Whale," where I weighed in at 280lbs and 22%bf. I have lost a little while doing the T-dawg diet. Unfortunately, I had a re-aggravation of an old eye injury, and needed eye surgery. I still wear a long-term bandage contact. But, for about 3-4 weeks I had to lay off heavy exercise, because spikes in intra-occular blood pressure could have popped my cornea back apart. I was able to play racquetball, and really enjoyed it. I look forward to playing again for GPP and some added cardio benefit. I was just curious as to wheather I should stick with a 5x5 scheme, or try to use meltdown, or a CW program.

In regards to the AD for a female, I'd highly recommend it. The added benefit of additional iron and Bvits from red meat will definently help women during menstruation. As an acid test, my buddy's gf was "on", and was cramping while we were having a cookout. Amidst my grilling a cow, I fixed her a nice ribeye, and a romaine salad with homemade olive oil/balsamic vinegar dressing. Later that evening, as we were playing poker, I asked how she felt, and she said that the cramping and bloat were down, and that she actually felt comfortable.

This will scare my parents, especially since they both are on Lipitor and other meds, and routinely binge on crap carbs. They will definently freak when seeing me take shots of olive oil. Now, time to do some shopping. -The Starkdog

Thanks Jeff K.

I just finished this thread.

I didn't see too much mention of leptin.

I found a good link that covers leptin and the rosedale diet is similar although I think it's b.s. because you have to buy tons of his supplements. It is good read though.

http://www.mercola.com/...muscle_fuel.htm

sorry for my grammar ;) was rushing

I was talking with a naturopathic doctor friend of mine this weekend and he mentioned that the full feeling could be from too much psyllium ingestion. I was taking about 4-6 tablespoons of the stuff giving me at least 50g of fibre and drinking at least 4l water a day, closer to 6... but i think all that soluable fibre gets stuffed in there and can make a person feel full constantly. I'm toning it down to 2 tbs a day and will see how that goes...
Peteman

Thanks for the heads-up on the fiber. Just out of curiousity, what type of workout would you recommend for the initial entry phase? I was thinking something along the lines of Waterbury, especially since I respond well to low reps/set schemes. Thanks, -The Starkdog

Eat more, bro. This is only a caloric suggestion. Everyone is different and being a young active teen will enable you to handle more cals. No problems at all. And your age makes no difference. We are optimizing the body's output and creating a favorable ratios of not only T, but also GH, insulin, and glucagon, among many others. This is a far cry from ingesting exogenous synthetics. I wish I had this diet at your age. Dig in bro. You'll be bigger and lean in no time.

Best,
DH

Lucky sucker!

Been logging my body temp first thing in the AM ,

Day 1 - 97.2 (Carbup ended night before)
Day 2 - 96.6
Day 3 - 96.4
Day 4 - 96.6
Day 5 - 96.5
Day 6 - 97.8 (Started carbup 4 pm on Day 5)
Day 7 - 97.2 (Full day carbup on Day 6)
Day 8 - 96.6

I am feeling quite ok throughout the weeks and have been having pretty decent workouts. Need for sleep has gone up, even on weekdays I have difficulty getting up in the morning which was not the case before I started AD.

Have the others been observing their body temp? Do you see a similar pattern?

DH, do you think any changes are required.

Thanks
DD

Whoops, guess I'd better just eat a big plate of crow. Sorry for throwing you off Africa X, just being overly cautious I guess. Good luck on the AD!
-CA

No worries there Charles, you were just concerned about me;). Thanks alot to both of you for clearing it up.

Well, I have been doing the T-Dog 2.0 for a couple of months now. Before that, I did the velocity diet. This sounds like a good change of pace, so I started today. I have lost 40+ pounds using the previous two diets (244 to 200), and kept muscle loss to a minimum.

Thanks everyone for a most excellent thread, and for all of the info. I'm wondering if I will crash sooner because I have already been on reduced carb intake with the velocity and t-dawg??

Ok. Day#1

I like this diet. I have kept carbs low, and should end up with 30 by the end of the day. I prepped myself last night, making a shake with 2Tbsp of olive oil. Later, I had some cheese cubes and bacon. I have been keeping well hydrated, and fiber intake high. So far, everything seems fine. One strange note though, I have this really sweet taste in my mouth, even after consuming something salty, like bacon. Is this my body signaling the start of ketosis, or am I converting to fat burning faster than expected? Thanks- The Starkdog

I agree completely, IC. The best "fat loss" parameters are the functional/total hypertrophy ranges. Follow CW's Set/Rep scheme and CT's Locked and Loaded loading scheme also. Don't ever think of training as "fat loss" focused. It's a waste. Think of trying to add muscle and strength while cutting. Then you'll keep and possibly add a bit of muscle. Focus on anabolism, not hedging/protecting your gains. Afterall, anabolism is the key to not only growth but leaning out, too. EDT is great. So is TBT, OVT, and any other growth focused plan. These 3 are just a couple of my favorites here on T-mag.

DH

That's not a huge fluctuation, overall. Don't worry with it. Just watch your waist size, scale weight, and your strength levels. They are what matter.

You should make sure that you are getting iodine from something like a kelp supplement to feed your thyroid. Hot Rox too. Then see if your temps move.

For sleep, try some ZMA and/or Melatonin (short term). Sounds like you are still in the throes of long term adaptation.

DH

I have had some great results with TBT while on the AD, am on the 5th week and my strength is consistently going up while loosing fat. Suggest you look it up on the site and give it a try.

DD

Many thanks DH, have added another 500 cals to the diet since yesterday to see what happens.Also have not been pyramiding the cals, maybe the body has got used to the same cals coming in everyday.Will start now.

DD

That should be a sound decision. See how many cals you can get away with, fluctuate them to stave off caloric adaptation, continue to keep a keen eye on your bodyfat and your temps. You should find that "magic" soon enough.

Also, without knowing your initial thyroid numbers before going on the AD, we are shooting in the dark. But considering that on the carb days and immediately thereafter you should be at your personal high end, then your overall fluctuation is not too bad. The above may optimize it a bit more.

DH

Can you give me a sense of your condition? Say maybe weight, rough BF percentage, age, and general demeanor (ie relaxed and easygoing or hyper etc..) Do you ever experience cold hands, feet, lower legs on a consistent basis?

Not a problem at all Sir Charles. You were thinking along the responsible tangent. Well done. That's the kind of advice the young guys need on these threads. It's just that optimizing the body's supply and usage of endogenous hormones is vastly different from ingestion of synthetics.

As a side note, epileptic children sometimes follow a continual ketogenic diet with great improvement in their condition. No health problems overall. Of course we know, after much discussion, that the AD is not a ketogenic diet per se. A teen on the AD should do well. Should set him up for a good base, good lipid profile, and possibly a better complexion as sugars seem to exacerbate acne.

My biggest suggestion for one this young is to be sure and utilize plenty of protein powder and olive oil. It will be hard to aquire much steak and the pricier meats unless mom and dad are "sittin' pretty". A part time job to buy some additional quality meats would be a good idea. Were a young man set his mind to do this diet, and stick to it, he'd do very well indeed.

DH

Good input, Peteman. Fiber can really hinder appetite if overdone.

DH

Uhh, do I know you BD?

DH

To the ever patient Jeff K:

Peri-workout nutrition.

I have a few protocols that I think will work well. We'll call them "economy", "middle class", "theoretical bliss", and "Doc D's Bomb". There are a few others that I may throw out for specific purpose should the need arise.
----
Economy:

45 mins prior to training:
Some whey concentrate (say 25-40g)
Some caseinate (say 10g or so)

Post workout(immediately or soon after)
Same as above with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.

This should allow the aminos to be in the blood stream during the workout, signaling the body not to cannibalize muscle but rather use an easily utilized supply already. Then another hit after the workout for more protein synthesis.
------
Middle Class:
Whey isolate about 30 mins before (say 20g). Can add a little Milk Isolate or Micellar Caseinate too.

Whey isolate during (say 20g)

Post:
Whey isolate (20g)
Milk isolate or Micellar Caseinate(20g)
with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.

Isolate is a little "cleaner" and faster and should be easy enough on the gut to ingest during. This should saturate your system with AA's during the "hot times". Milk Isolate gives a lttle casein which is very anticatabolic and at this small level shouldn't slow down the overall effect too much. You'll be covering the anabolic and anti-catabolic zones nicely.
-----
Theoretical Bliss:

20-30 minutes prior
Hydrolyzed Whey (10g)
Whey Isolate (10g) for taste

Same during training

Post:
Hydrolyzed Whey (25g)
Whey Isolate (25g)
with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.
----
Doc D's Bomb:
Same as "theoretical bliss" but use the "Amino" product after for what Mauro says is the best "square wave" increase in the hyperaminoacidemia effect.
---

Now, before I set off a rabid argument over all this, remember that we are in an entirely different metabolic set than others. We will be using hyperaminoacidemia to stimulate insulin to an acceptable level to increase protein synthesis. You only need CHO if you are a CHO burner. Unnecessary for us.

IF you must, after 3 solid months on the diet WITHOUT post workout CHO, you may try using about 20g of glucose/maltodextrin or even plain old sugar ONLY on post workout. Never on pre or you'll halt fat loss in it's tracks. I really prefer to allow the body to continue to burn fat after the workout, and to have it get it's glycogen from gluconeogeneisis from the breakdown of triglycerides. This is optimal.

I do not, and personally don't suggest using any more than 20g of simple fast CHO to assist in insulin response after the workout. You DO NOT need it. You really don't. The experts, many of whom I respect, are telling you what is necessary for the carb burners. It is a conditional observation. This is NOT your condition so it does not pan out the same for you. If you saturate the system with aminos from properly timed protein sources, you'll get enough of an insulin response to get the protein synthesis we are looking for AND keep burning fat.

Best,
DH

Oh and in my honest opinion, you might only see a 10-20% improvement from the "least" to the "best" of the above scenarios. What that might mean is 2lbs more muscle in a years time. Don't sweat it if you can only afford economy. You're still doing great. The dietary structure of the AD is vastly more important.

To get a better understanding of this check out Dave Barr's Top 10 Myths article. Protein synthesis is elevated for 24-48 hours after a workout. The famous "window" is not nearly as important as continuous feeding of the proper foods. That is what we are doing on the AD. The real focus should be on the anabolic effects of the AD. This is why frequent training augments the AD. You are in a state of perpetual protein synthesis stimulation, and are constantly giving the body the right macros for growth and fat loss. Post workout nutrition is no more important than breakfast and not much more so than standard meals.


REMEMBER THIS: (and forget all else if you want. Really.)

The big picture is MUCH more important than this one "meal" window of opportunity. Never forget that. Our CHO load, which works ONLY when we follow the AD with the bare minimum of CHO intake, is the monster insulin surge for growth that others don't get. Then the bare bones CHO allows the week to set our T, GH, insulin, etc.. in both a growth AND fat loss mode. Don't screw this up for a "myth" that we've been fed.

Will be putting the Starr scheme up soon.

DH

Where the heck is MDragon?

DH

Also I just got #900. That means I've got the last three. 700,800,900.

Ha Ha

#901 is just as good. Damn DH, did you drink a couple shots of espresso before that last posting frenzy? Thanks for the PWO nutrition info, I think it will help us all out a ton.

I guess it's time for a check-up. I'm sitting at around 175 at about 12-13%BF. Strength is definately up, and I've been gaining weight every week with no change in my caliper measurements.

However, I checked my BP yesterday (3 times) and it has gone from normal to high normal, indicating to me that I am starting to store too much fat in my interabdominal region. I think I'm going to go on a short cutting cycle to lose about 10lbs of fat, hopefully mainly from this area. Vasuveda has been a huge help figuring out the caloric wave with me, so this shouldn't take more than a 6 weeks. After that I'll probably do a slight bulk all school year long. I'm thinking of a weight-loss wave looking like this, (my maitenance is ~3500kcals/day):

Mon-875kcals
Tues-1750kcals
Wed-5250kcals
Thurs-875kcals
Fri-1750kcals
Sat-3936kcals
Sun-3936kcals

This should set me up for a net fat loss of around 1.75lbs/week, allowing me to achieve my fat loss goals in a little under 6 weeks. I'll be taking my normal supplements, but adding 2-4 tabs of HOT-ROX varying by caloric deficit. I won'be doing this cycle for a few weeks, as I need to start school next week. I'll keep y'all updated on my progress.
-CA

Hey all-

I followed the AD back when it was first introduced by Dr. D back in 95 (I think). I still have the video but apparently I have lost the booklet that came with the video.

Anyways, I followed the AD for about 6 months. As I recall, I quit the AD because of what I thought back then was a little flaccidity, that is, I thought I was gaining fat--but after reading comments by those savvy(i.e., discerning), seasoned veterans, it seems that if I just kept on a bit longer and/or made some adjustments the flaccidity would have dissipated.
Thinking back, I certainly would have added more fiber and water to the low carb week.

Some questions for the more erudite (though certainly NOT limited just to them) ones--at least as far as experience with the AD is concerned:

Could the aforementioned flaccidity be due to too much sodium from bacon, cheese, etc.?

What about too much sodium despite the low carbs--that is, could someone or more specifically, have you experienced bloating, water retention, flaccidiy, or whatever *due to too much sodium* from yummy bacon, during the low carb (30 grams) week? If so, the only thing that I can think of to remedy the situation is to increase water intake all the more, plus maybe increase potassium intake to X amount? What is the maximum recommended dosage for potassium (K) by the way during the low carb/high protein/high fat strech? 1 gram?

Thanks and later,

extol

P.S. By the way, I HAVE read though the ENTIRE thread. Thus, if anything in the above has been addressed already my apologies in advance. Also, I am by no means a 'newbie' so very short, concise, brief, comments/answers will more than suffice--specially if something has already been repeatedly addressed.

Just wanted to pop in and post my progress on this diet.
I went through the shift without much fanfare (I was already watching my carb intake pretty good)and after 12 day shift I had my first carb load this past weekend. I didn't really keep tabs on total calories just played it smart and didn't go too, too crazy : ) By Sun afternoon I figured it was enough and then hit the gym. I've got to say I was extremely happy with the results of my workout. After 12 days of low carbing it I was flat and not expecting too much right away. After 36 hours of a carb load it was like magic. I literally got a pump on my way to the gym. 2 days later and I'm still getting a good pump at the gym. I've really got high hopes now for this diet especially after I do some fine tuning. Thanks DH and everyone else!

Good news!

Day #3, and I am now 273 lbs! Yeah I dropped 3 lbs of water, but I feel great, despite a little GI grumbling. A cup of spinach with a tablespoon of butter fixed that problem. So far, I have not had any cravings for carbs. I actually find it difficult to pack in 30g, but I will up the broccoli and spinach. My joints feel "well oiled" and some of the joint swelling and stiffness has gone down. It is amazing how puffy I get with carbs. I'll wait until Monday to start TBT, so that I get everything diet-wise dialed in(nothing like crapping your pants while deadlifting).

I fixed this for lunch, and it is a great quick meal. 1/2lb of Tilapia, 1Tbsp Olive Oil spread in baking dish, Greek seasoning and pepper. On the side, I had 1/2 walnuts, and some chedder cheese.

Also, I fixed this earlier, but I mixed 2oz of heavy cream with 2 scoops of Low-Carb Grow! and some water. This is to die for! I seriously thought that I was drinking cake batter. I was full for about 6 hours. I also enjoy turkey burgers pan fried in olive oil. Oh, I just love this diet. I can feel the warmth after eating, and I sweat profusely for about an hour.

-The Starkdog