I was just looking at the list of high carbohydrate foods (heavy weekend use) and giggling like a little schoolgirl.

Anybody got experience with PWO-shakes on the AD?

So far I've used olive oil,but I was thinking of getting some sat fat from cream.

Edit:Goin' for the olive oil/cream combo.

Only one more day until the big carb up. Im excited to see how my body responds to it. I have a question for some of you veterans of this eating program- is it really nessecary to wait for energy levels to be good again before going from the matinence phase as reccomended in the book. I only weigh about 200 pounds but I am starving here 3600 calories arent keeping me full. Will this change once the carb ups start? Are there any foods you can recommend that keep you fuller than others? I'm eating spinach, lots of beef in the form of steaks and 80% hamburger, eggs and bacon, chicken, olive oil, cheddar cheese when my left over carbs allow for it and I am still really hungry.

Some pointers mastodon:

1) On the load, count your macro's and cals. That way you'll know how much you can handle and vary according to your goals etc.

2) Eat clean carbs if possible on the load, it ain't an excuse to bust out the ben and jerry's.

3) Eat broccoli to keep you full. I eat about 6 cups a day and stay under 30g each day.

Drink milk, it's okay. I usually have 2/3 cups of 2% on the load.

Beer - well, up to you. I don't drink so I have no say, but during the load would be the best time to do it.

I don't use creatine, but a friend of mine superdoses (i think) it during the load.

Taking creatine with high gi carbs such as maltodextrin or dextrose has been said (i'm not 100% positive if studies have been done, or how well the studies were conducted for that matter)to help with creatine absorbtion. However, this is by far not the only way creatine "works", and the difference in absorbtion should be minimal, if any. I would highly recommend it on this diet or any other diet for that matter.

I don't think a couple of beers will make you shrink. There was a thread here a while back that you can find by searching "alcohol" that puts a pretty interesting take on it. The topic of alcoholic beverages is usually met with an extreme amount of force here and at other bodybuilding sites. The poster of this thread (European, I believe) pretty much said that the odd drink or two here and there is not that counter-productive, it is the American the activity of "drinking" that will cause you trouble. In other words, having two beers is not the same as having a twelve pack. Also, having six beers spread out over a week, say, having three on two separate nights, is not equivalent to having a 6 pack.

Something, I wish that would be addressed more closely is the beer "recommendation" that actually is associated with this diet. I'm guessing it is just a selling point of the book and the diet itself, but I recall reading various times that this is the "pizza and beer on the weekend diet." As a matter of fact the T-Nation article concerning the diet also listed beer weekends as one of the advantages. What I would like to know, is the weekend beer/alcohol any less detrimental on the AD than it would be than say if you were on a Massive Eating type diet and having drinks on the weekends?

Also, say on this diet one is to go out and drink a couple of beers on a thursday night, not carb loading. Would that be any more harmful than say having 4 on a sat. night? Does the two beers on a weekday mess up fat burning (I assume that is where the main issue lies), enough to make it that much more detrimental than drinking on weekends? Even while carb loading you are still burning fat, correct? So therefore wouldn't the weekend beer effect fat burning just like the weeday beer.

This scenario is also assuming that the beer does not cause one to exceed their daily carb limit. I apologize for hijacking the "gym party beer" question, it is just the obssesive compulsive and the 21 year old trying to manage the AD/college/and social life in coming out. I look forward to the usual informative responses.

I think the beer is just a selling point that the doc used to advertise the diet. Beer = carbs + alcohol. On the load, the carbs would be used to refill glycogen (albeit shit carbs) but the alcohol will fuck with your body. However, a few drinks on the weekend won't destroy your physique, current or potential.

My 24~hr load is as follows:

Cals: 5216
Carb: 722 (55%)~
Pro : 228 (17%)~
Fat : 142 (24%)~

2nd Page? Not while I'm around.

C'mon, DH, IC, CA, I need you guys!

Hey guys,how is it going? Does GNC sell Biotest products? Thanks.

Brick,

I must've missed something, what do you need help with?

Wait, nevermind, I got the 2nd page reference now....not to worry, there will always be crappy threads filling up the boards, but the great threads usually rise to the top.

Ha Ha. Yeah, we'll be fine. We've been around for ever!
-CA

I started the diet again today. I was pretty satisfied with the results the first time, and I'm looking forward to modifying it to make it a regular way of eating, as IC and DH do.
My big sticking point was breakfast, since I don't care for eggs. Starting your day off with food you don't like is a sure-fire way to shorten the time you dedicate to the diet.

One possible solution is to eat a low-carb bar along with a protein shake. That's what I did this morning (Pure Protein brand), along with 1 tbsp of PB, protein shake and 1/2 and 1/2 in my espresso.

I know low carb bars are not the best choice- are they forbidden on the diet? WIll they interfere with results?

Those of you who've done/are doing the diet using lo-carb bars, what were your results? Helped or hindered?

Please let me know ASAP.

I'm going to workout more consistently, so I'm expecting better results.

I'm also using more affirmations, visualizations, and have made changes to my mindset.

I used to hate eggs with a passion, but after gagging them down for a bit Ive grown to like them a lot. If I didnt start my day with a big meat and cheese omellete I wouldnt know what to do. Use the advice to cover them up with salsa or cheese, they are the perfect food for this diet as far as I can tell.

I know about the -tols and how they are sugar alcohols but thanks for the tip about the FDA not labeling them as CHO yet.

Still would be curious to know if some other vets use them or not.

Thanks for the tips on masking eggs.

Any other breakfast suggestions?

I thought of protein shake with nuts or 2 tbsp peanut butter

Dr Praeger's Spinach pancakes or Broccoli nuggets (4g net carbs) with eggs

Eggs with smoked salmon

ALso, what can I use in place of bread crumbs when making baked chicken and such?

Soy crumbs, whole wheat flour....? Thoughts?

I've got a couple of questions for DH or anyone else familiar with the mid week carb up. It has been suggested that the carb up take place as the last meal on Wed., is this assuming that one starts the 36 hour carb-up on sat. morning? I have experimented with both starting fri, as well as the more traditional sat. morning start and believe I like the Sat morning-Sun early evening the best.

However, if for some reason during a given week, due to a social or family event or something, I know I'm going to start loading on fri. night, would I move up the midweek spike to Wed. morning or afternoon?

So, AD'ers, I was looking for a new source of fiber, something a little more concentrated then milled flax. I found corn bran, which the USDA database gives per cup as:

170 Cals
7 grams of protein
60 grams of fiber
65 grams of carbs
1 gram of fat

That leaves around a hundred unaccounted for calories.

What's the deal, I don't want to add more hidden carbs to get some roughage.

Here's some links:
http://www.calorie-count.com/...item/20015.html

And it's in the actual usda database if you type in corn bran:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/...oodcomp/search/

What's up guys.


I have been reading this thread for a while now and decided to try the diet. I bought the Metabolic Diet book and I am half way through it now. I started the diet this past Sunday and I am doing the 12 day assessment phase. I was doing fine until about an hour ago. I went to lunch with my girlfriend and I ordered 12 regular wings with ranch and bleu cheese dressing with a diet pepsi to drink. When the waitress brought out the wings I noticed they were breaded!!! I ate them all. What does this do for my assessment phase? Does it screw it up? Do I have to start over or can I just continue the assessment phase as normal and carb up after my 12th day? I am about 270 with about 25% body fat. I lift weights 4x a week working each body part 2x per week using all compound exercises (CW style). My goal is to lose as much body fat as quickly as possible without losing strength and muscle mass. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks guys and good luck with your goals.

haha...once i ordered a bunch of wings and got so pissed off when they came out breaded...i literally yelled "THESE WINGS ARE BREADED" i get made fun for it to this day.

Get some psyllium. It is generally labeled as colon cleanse. Or, if you are old enough, Super Colon Blow!

-folly

Breaded wings...huh...who'd a guessed?

;0

DH

I've been thinking of trying something.

At the beginning of the AD I ate around 200 g fat and 200 g protein.Obviously,this was too much protein for my 83 kg,15+% bodyfat body.I downed the protein to 190,then 160-170.Works great.I slowly upped fat from 200 to 220,then 250 and later 300.At 300 I gained a bit too much fat around the waist.Downed it back to around 250,and at that I'm slowly gaining.I keep the load clean,with loads of potatoes,oats,a few bananas and sweet potatoes.

I'm going to down the fat to 200 now.Had an idea that being a fat burner and having a surplus of fat(food) on my body,I could get away with a lower fat intake,lose fat and still gain a bit of muscle and strength due to the supply of energy from the fat stores in my body.

Could work/stupid?

if you lower fat, but are still in a surplus of calories, you'll gain weight. If you lower fat, and are in a deficit of calories, your body will go looking for fat, hopefully from bodyfat, as high protein (relativly speaking) + training retains muscle.

You can possibly recomp (lower bf + gain weight) with the AD, but it would be a painfully slow process.

Anyways, tommorow I'm gonna try 10g dex pwo to see what happens, hopefully things will be positive.

Things that will be consumed tomorrow:

M1: Beef + Salad w/ EVOO
M2: Whey + Dex >>> Beef + EFA 1hr later
M3: Beef + Salad w/ EVOO
M4: Tuna + EVOO
M5: Eggs + Almonds
M6: Casein/Heavy Cream Shake

Holy shit that lazy SOB mdragon is posting. Hey guys I'm working in Iraq thus the problem with me posting. Because of this place and being a whimp I started eating like crap, just started eating the AD again this week. I tried three times before but always ended up eating an MRE several times that week for whatever reason non that could be controlled. Hopefully I will be at the chow hall on a regular basis now and can continue with the AD. No I'm not military just one of those lousy contractors.

Good to see you back Dragon. I think that one of the good things about the AD is that it's pretty forgiving when you go overboard. You are in a tough situation, but do the best you can, things don't always have to be perfect.

Anyone have any good protein/fat combos they really like that they'd be willing to share? The best thing throughout the day, for me, is natural peanut butter over chicken breasts. The guys that work with me think it smells like crap, but cold chicken doesn't really taste that great by itself.

Steak and Eggs
Heavy Cream Shakes
Chicken and PB is awesome
Tuna + Olive oil with Garlic Powder rocks

Also, get some ground beef and some cream cheese. Make a hamburger patty with the cream cheese in the middle. (Imagine an egg, with the cream cheese the yolk) and fry that sucker up. It is delicious.

Sounds good, man.

My load this last 36 hours. (Christmas is gonna be pro/fat - lots of meat :D )

Over 36 hrs:

Cals : 6016
Carbs : 799 (52%)
Prot : 267 (17%)
Fat : 178 (26%)

*why don't my macro's ever add up to 100% :( *

oh well.

Merry xmas to you all.

OK, I am a 19 year old BB who is about to start this diet to hopefully get ready for my first contest next spring. I have been following this thread for several months now and purchased the e-book a while back.

I have some questions about my plan of attack however, and was hoping you guys could help me out. I am 5'9", 205, 12.3% bf, just so you know.

I was thinking of supplementing with HOT-ROX and calcium pyruvate for the fat loss, and just multi, whey, casein, NOX3, bcaa, EFAs, vitamins C & E, a preworkout supp, ZMA, and cee products for general health and growth.

I am going to start the diet Jan 16, and for the first 12 days is less than 30g carbs followed by 36-48 hours carb load. After this, the diet is normal, 5 days low carb, 2 days high carb(overly simplistic i know).

I was planning on going right into cutting after the first two weeks until I find the right kcal level that I lose between 1.5-2 lbs/week and then adding the pyruvate and HOT-ROX a week after I find the right level.

About 2-3 weeks after this, I will add cardio gradually to continue losing fat. I will be eating ground beef, sausage, eggs, cheese, olive oil, heavy whipping cream, milled flax seeds, kale, bacon, pepperoni, and hot sauce to taste primarily.

I would just like some help first of all with making sure everything sounds ok, and secondly with my supp schedule as I'm not entirely sure when I will take the pyruvate and bcaas on this diet.

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows or has tried Lipo 6 or Hydroxycut Hardcore and thinks I would benefit by adding one or both into my program later on. Any and all help would be appreciated. Thanks, Duffey.

Also, I found a delicious recipe for egg nog for those who want it on their low carb days. You just put four eggs in a blender and beat them, add 2 1/2 cups heavy whipping cream, 1 tsp vanilla, and 1 1/2 tsp Equal, and mix it all up. Makes about 4 servings and has 60.75 g fat, 5 g carbs, and 10.25 g protein per serving.

MD,

Yeah, I think you'll be ok. You will adapt if the carbs are a little higher. I would just try to walk a little more or something. Plus, ya can't go wrong with eggs.

How long will you be out there?

Hi guys,

I've been doing great on the diet but just want to report some disturbing news. I received a call from my doctor today after getting blood work done 4 months into the diet.

My cholesterol had skyrocketed. It was perfect before, and now it is very high. 250. Tomorrow I have to go off the diet and back to eating the way I did before. It sucks though, because I saw some great results in the gym with this. Ah well.

Justin

OK, well before anyone responds to my earlier post, I wanted to amend two things and ask a question.

First, I am taking out the pyruvate after reading an article by Chris Shugart stating it does not work at realistic doses.

Second, I am removing the NOX3 as I have never really felt that the NO products worked or helped me, but after reading magazines and such, believed that they were "working behind the scenes" as it were.

However, after reading the article about NO products and how they don't work, I realize I was fooled by the companies and my original gut feeling was correct.

My question is if its alright to use Crystal Light on this diet and if there was a limit to how much should be consumed in a day. Thanks, Duffey.

No, I did not fast before getting my cholesterol checked, but I read that fasting before the test would have almost no effect.

I was extremely strict with carb counts, making sure never to go above 30 in a day.

I did eat more saturated fats than usual (lots of eggs, bacon, red meat, cheese, etc.) but also a lot of olive oil. I consumed about 8-10 tablespoons of olive oil per day. I took fish oil capsules occasionally, but probably not as often as I should have.

The diet was great, but unfortunately I think I am one of the rare few who do not respond well. As of this morning, I am back to bulking with carbs.

I read in Udo Erasmus' book 'fats that Heal,Fats that Kill' that when fat is burned for energy it produces ammonia and other harmful substances.He recommends 15-20% of kcal from fat,with carbs as high as 70-80%.

True?

Hey something people on this thread may have contemplated: When supplementing with creatine, the common wisdom is to take it when you are spiking insulin (ie. with a high-carb PWO shake). So when is a good time or what is a good strategy for creatine supplementation when on a low-carb diet?

I know Charles Poliquin uses a similar strategy as DiPasquale with his athletes. Does anyone know precisely what the similarities/differences are between the AD and Poliquin's recommendations?

'Although both oils and proteins can also be used for fuel,they do not burn 'clean',producing ketones and ammonia,respectively,which can have toxic effects in liver,kidneys and brain.'

Thaks,get it now.

Here's CT's macros on the AD:
From 300 to 400 g protein a day,the latter being on the load
From 120 g fat to 20 g on the load
200 g carbs during the weekend

Seems protein was a tad too high and fat a tad too low according to the guidelines of the AD.Nevertheless, he shredded alot of weight on the diet!What amazes me the most is that some days he goes as low as 2300 kcal,weighing in at 230 pounds,18% bodyfat.

I'm really curious -

Looking over Eric Cressey's diet in "Periodize Your Diet", he seems to _basically_ be putting into effect the AD with one exception - his PWO drink of Surge.

So here's my question - what are the advantages of approaching a low-carb diet his way (with hits of carbs during your workout and a clean refeed on weekends) vs. the strict Anabolic Diet?

From a completely biased and subjective viewpoint, when I leave thr fat burning stage, I generally get cravings for carbs when that insulin gets kicking again. Then again, I'm pretty certain I adapt very quickly to fat burning simply because I've played with T-Dawg/TKDs in the past. I'll usually hit a wall maybe 2 or 3 days on a TKD, and then magically, my energy returns (and more some) a view days later, and the "need more carbs" feeling disappears.

I've always had poor carbohydrate tolerance, and have had a good degree of insulin resistance, so I may be predisposed to adapting quickly to this sort of diet. I know some individuals who have had to eat something like 70% fat with no carbs whatsoever in order to reach that stage, and they generally go down hard when they adapt.

OK, well since no one has responded to either of my first two posts and questions, I've got another one. I know the doc says to take fiber in powder, not pill form, but would chitosan be ok in this regard? Since it doesn't work as a fat trapper, it is relatively cheap and fibrous. Since I do have a bottle I got for free somewhere, would it be a good idea to use it to bump up my fiber intake and help me adapt more easily to the diet? Please, I'm starting the diet soon...DH, IC, CA, anyone...someone help!

I'm currently in limbo about whether to continue the diet or not, here is my deal. I've been on the diet since late august and have been in a bulking phase. I'm 5'8 and was at 150-155 all summer and fairly ripped, my "in season" so to speak. No exact bf measurements taken but feel like I was down in the single digits.

Last year following the Massive Eating principles, I was able to bulk up to around 165-170 and my 30' pants still fit fairly well in the waist at this level. I'm about at the same weight currently on the bulk with hopes of cutting t0 155-160 for summer. I know this build is probably deemed small, however, I'm trying to be consistent as gradually getting bigger via bulks and cuts over a period of time. However, I have noticed that although I feel like visibly my bf is lower than it was at last years bulk, my waist appears to have gotten larger as in only the loosest of my reg. pants fit.

Over the last few days, I have gone back to the massive eating principles, implementing pwo and a few amount of carbs after the workout, however, not enough to throw the whole ad off if I decide to get back in which is what I am debating.

I guess my question is should I stick with this thourgh the cut (which is where I hear the fat burning aspect of this thing really pays off), or should I jump back into the world of moderate carb consumption ala Berardi and Massive Eating or possibly a T-Dawg type diet? Could it be possible that via the ad method of bulking I can only go up about ten lbs or so as opposed to reaching for 15+. Thanks for the constant info and knowledge.

A little addition to my previous post-In regards to upping the carbs to include a full PWO, at what point are you not burning fat any longer?

I hear many speak of not adding many more carbs due to the fact of switching back to carbs as fuel, however I recall reading in the book that some due better on 100+ carbs a day, and other things such as this to make me think that it is no magic number or anything, just a matter of finding ideal numbers to suit individuals.

Looking back on my recent bulk, I can see several things I would do different next, for one, carb-ups, while normally around 80% clean were prob. too long. From here on out I plan to just eating enough to the point where I fill like I have "filled out", no more no less.

I feel as if this is a better estimate that eating till I "start to put down fat" as is the philosophy that I have often heard in regards to the carb up. Here is my tentative plan for my semi-cut in which I am starting to decrease calories just a bit but not as far as -500 quite yet.

I believe I will consume a full serving of Surge either PWO, or half before and half after. Also, I will try to make sure that eggs, beef, fish, fish oil,cheese, in addition to Low-Carb Grow! at bedtime are my primary staples.

I'm not saying this is necesarry all I will eat, however I feel that the protein quaility and fat content of most of these foods make them ideal. Previously, I feel I have consumed too many things such as sausage,bacon, and things like cheese spread.

While all in accord to the diet, I feel they could have been better utilized in the earlier mentioned foods.

Finally, is there any harm in throwing in the Berardi philosohpy of 2-3 servings of green vegetables with each meal. Although carb content will add up with things such as brocolli and spinach, it will not be that significant, and with everything I have read the GI on these are all but negligible.

So I guess an overall run down of my revision means somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-100 carbs a day, and a clean as possibly carb up like only lasting one day or a portion of it once a week. Any hangups here? I look forward to the always insightful and educated responses this thread always seems to offer.

I'm a big believer in taking the skeletal model of any regimin be it training, nutrition, recovery, etc., and personalizing it to get optimal personal results. If time is not an issue, I'd recommend trying different ways to work the diet and see what works for you.

Broccoli and spinach don't really count as carbs per se. Namely in that fiber doesn't count towards carb count at all, and secondly that the body can't digest all that celluose, to the best of my knowledge you're gonna be passing most of it. I eat spinach or broccoli almost everyday on my AD.

I love the spinach, I lay down the olive oil and ranch dressing on it too.

I haven't been on the AD as long as some but I do happen to be up all night so I'll give this one a shot. Earlier in the thread DH recommended olive oil. Love the stuff, get a big tin can of it.

I drink the stuff in protein shakes throughout the day. Sometimes just mixed with some water when I'm too high on carbs for a scoop of protein.

Olive oil is crazy calorie dense. If you can get it on your ship you should be set Johnnyba.

I found this recope, which sounds totally awesome, but I must confess my ignorance... how much is a serving of Rice?

It calls for six cups of brown rice and I figured I could eat that on Saturday and be done with my carb up, but my roomate says I certainly won't be able to eat that much rice in a day.

I hope he's wrong, those 1000 grams of delicious carbs are calling my name.

F'n Chinese buffets. I found a good one near my job and decided to try it out. The place theoretically is ideal because they offer quite a variety of fish and seafood. They offer a reasonable amount of vegetable dishes and keep the Chinese food and rice/ noodle dishes to a minimum.

Well, what a letdown when I realized EVERY single blessed item of food in the establishment had been cooked in or was doused in a sugary sauce! E-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g was sweet!

4 types of shrimp, green beans, pork chops, chicken and broccoli, beef and vegetables...The place was a monumental tease.

What could I do? I was starving and ate 4 plates! I tried to focus on shrimp as they seemd to have the smallest quantity of "sugar sauce" but as I'm sure everyone has realized, on the Anabolic diet, seafood/fish/plain chicken aint gonna cut it when we're hungry. We need the power of beef and pork and dairy and healthy fats to keep us strong.

Ah well, a lesson learned

I've asked this before to no response, hopefully someone can help out.

What is a good substitute for bread crumbs?

Soy flour/crumbs? Oat flour?

Somebody help a brother out, I don't know how much longer I can go without Chicken Parm.....

ALso, is there a way of making acceptably low-carb pancakes?
There are low-carb tortillas, right?

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I just wanted to let those know that it is okay to have some carbs after a workout (I have maybe 30-40 tops).

In the Bodybuilding version of the Anabolic Diet, it says its okay to have them. If you feel like crap after the gym and you feel really depleted, you should have some carbs (simple and complex mixed is preferred). If you are trying to gain mass, the last thing you want is to be feeling hungry or depleted (except maybe on the initiation part of this diet).

Hi everybody. I'm new to T-Nation.

I have to say, I can't believe how HUGE this thread is. It took me the better part of a week to read it all. Not that I'm complaining; actually I'm glad it is so big as I've learned so much good stuff. I've taken pages of notes, no joke.

Quite literally the hour that I finished the thread, I started my first carb-up after the 12-day initiation. PB&J whole wheat sandwich, a banana, and spaghetti with tomato sauce and mixed veggies all in the inside of an hour. I love this AD!

I just wanted to introduce myself. Over the short-term, my goal is to cut over the next two months--I'd like to drop 15 lbs with minimal LBM loss. I know I've come to the right place with the AD.

There is one thing I wanted to ask. I'm a big fan of HIIT (high intensity interval training). I'll do HIIT on a treadmill six days a week (10 minutes a go, plus warm up/cool down) in addition to lifting weights 4x/week. Is all this HIIT counter-productive, or totally appropriate for a cut?

I'll end with a little contribution, a AD-friendly dessert recipe that I like.

Low Carb Gummi Worms
Serves/Yields: 10

Ingredients-

* 2 packages sugar-free Jell-O
* 2 packages plain gelatine
* 1 cup boiling water
* If sour gummies are desired, add one packet of unsweetened Kool-aid in a flavor that goes well with your Jell-O flavor. The Kool-aid really makes them sour (but good).


Directions-

* Stir all ingredients until dissolved.
* Pour the mixture onto a large dinner plate and refrigerate. It will set in about 20 minutes.
* Either slice it into worms, or roll up the rubbery disk of gelatin and cut it every 1/4 inch with a large pair of scissors. You can also use tiny cutters to make little shapes.

Optional: I like to throw in a scoop of unflavored protein powder. It really volumizes the final product, making is "spongier" and more filling (but less candy-like).

Time to nuke a yam. Later all!

I eat at least 40 eggs a week, the whole egg.

If you're concerned get bloodwork.

DiPasqule mentions doing so before you ever begin.

I take a lot of fish oil as is also recommended to try to keep BP/Cholesterol in check.

Make sure you're munching down on TC's Power Foods on the weekends and during the week depending on the food and you should have kickass blood work.

Hi, guys!

I was fortunate enough to find this thread as I did a search for experiences on the Anabolic Diet... I'm 6-3, about 330 lbs., and I would like to drop about 100 lbs... I wanna get back to where I was before I got married... I have some questions about this diet, and the way that I would like to implement it...

I have a hard time eating maintenance calories, should that be a problem on this diet? Or will it just be a way of helping with the fat loss? Also, since I'm really just trying to lose fat, would it be alright if I focus the majority of my training now on cardio for fat loss?

My meal plan will go something like this:

M1 - protein shake, flaxseed oil
M2 - eggs, bacon
M3 - lean meat, salad
M4 - lean meat, salad
M5 - protein shake, flaxseed oil

I am planning on doing cardio at the gym first thing in the morning, before heading off to work.

Any thoughts and tips will be greatly appreciated!

Hi All,

First and foremost, kudos to the regular contributors to this thread for their time and effort put in to providing noobies like myself vital information and personal experiences that I can draw inspiration from.

Just wanted to introduce myself and be part of this thread since I'm actually on my second day of this diet. Yesterday went smoothly, although I did feel at some point that I wanted to rip into a giant cheese cake.

Here's a Quick meal Summary:

M1 - 8eggs with bacon
+ Fish Oil tablet

M2 - Protein Shake/ Classic Grow!
+ Apple

M3 - Pork, Spinach, CornedBeef, Salad and piece of melon + Fish Oil Tablet

M4 - Protein Shake/ Classic Grow!
+ Creatine
+ Fish oil tablet

* Handfull of almond nuts here and there.

BTW - I'm 5'8 and 94kgs. Any comments on my meals will be appreciated.

bV.

Has anyone read Rob Faigin's book "The Natural Hormone Enhancement diet"? It is very similar to the AD but im wondering if it makes any improvements on the AD/AS diets? If anyone has experience with both I would love to hear your opinion!

I know that DH and others here sing the praises of steak, but unfortunately a steak a day just doesn't fit my budget.

How bad would it be if my primary source of red meat were hamburger patties? And are there particular kinds of hamburger patties I should try to get/try to avoid?

I'll rephrase my question here... At 330 lbs, my main objective is fat loss... Would it be a problem to just do cardio to drop the fat, then concentrate on building muscle on this diet? I had planned on doing 45 mins - 1 hour of cardio a day for 6 days a week.

Endomorph.

Hi All,

Just a concern regarding the amount of fibre intake per day.

Can people list down what they are currently taking to take care of the fibre/roughage the body needs?

Really appreciate any comments. Currently I am eating salad and vegies for fibre but I don't think it's enough.

Any ideas?

Rgds
bV

Anyone? DH? How is the AD compared to Rob Faigins Natural Hormone Enhancement? I realize they are basically the same (NHE has more frequent/smaller carb-ups from my understanding and a shorter more strict intro period (1 week at <20g carbs).

For anyone that knows, does charles poliquin follow the same principles of the AD with his athletes?

Hi you all,

I've been lurking for 3 months now, but i've decided to post to the thread 'cause i think i've a problem i can't solve.

I started the AD at 10/20/05 consuming 3000 Cals (18xbw) and going strictly <=30 gr CHO daily (I've read the entire AD thread).
My stats were 163 lbs, 9.5% bf, 5' 8" tall. My body type is meso(less)-endomorphic(more). I gain muscle (and fat) fairly easily without having to eat extremely high calories.

Until that date, I was consuming 2500 Cals/day (100-200 grams CHO) and my weight and bf% were pretty stable. I was training 3 times/week and doing some light cardio 2-3 times/week.
I started the AD because i wanted to cut to 6-7% bf (not that i had much extra fat but as a personal accomplishment).

Since 10/20 and until 12/30 i gained 15 lbs (178) and climbed to 12% bf going steady at 18 CalsXbw (3000). I saw the fat accumulating but i wasn't changing anything because 1)it was the intro period of the diet where you weren't supposed to worry about anything else than adapting to fat and 2)some of the weight gain was muscle mass.

At that time i decided that i was already adapted (and fatter) enough to use the diet to accomplish my initial goal, that is fat loss.
So by 01/01 i went 500 Cals below maintenance (1800 Cals) cycling lower (1800) and higher (2400) cal days at a ratio 3:1. My CHO intake is 25-45 gr coming only from veggies. I train using the Waterbury's "10X3 For Fat Loss" programm (2-3 times/week whole body routines, compound lifts exclusively).

So now, 3 weeks in the cutting cycle and my stats are 173 lbs (-5 lbs) @ 10% bf (-2%).
I feel a little (or more) disappointed because:
1)I gained fat in the initial phase of the diet instead of loosing some as everybody else does
2)I think my progress during cutting is very slow compared to the promises of the AD about fast fat burning.

Do i miss something here? Do i do something wrong or am i on the right track and just being fuckin' impatient?
Considering Doc DiPasquale suggests lowering calories until a 1.5-2 lbs weight loss/week, how could i achieve this while already consuming 1800/day?Tried to eat only 1500 but i felt too weak.
I'm confused.

I apologize for the long post and i ask you to PLEASE help a poor (and rookie) fella from the distant Greece!!

Hey fellow AD men. I just wanted to check something: tomorrow I start my second carb-up. I ran my first carb-up for 28 hours (I had a good "pump" the next day but it was nothing dramatic).

I would like to cut now, so would it be wise for me to make my carb-ups 24 hours now? Or should I aim for more carb time?

One thing I noticed from my last carb-up was that it was difficult for me to get enough fats in (when you're eating oatmeal and yams and such, there wasn't any obvious room for fats). Any suggestions?

g.anagno,

It sounds like you're just experiencing some body composition fluxuations. I had the same.

I started seeing more results the longer I stayed on it. Granted, I'm an ectomorph/meso, but I started drying out more by friday and getting a more full and firm look when my carb loading was done. My bodyfat was really dropping in the later weeks I was using the AD. Basically I'm saying I experienced greater depletion/loading effects and a more pronounced bf reduction after several months.

It really sounds like you're doing things right, but I don't have as much experience with cutting with the AD or cutting at all for that matter.

It appears you've been on the diet a while and if you're just not feeling it it may not work for you, remember, nothing fits well for everyone.

Yes. 24 is fine if you are looking to cut. You just want to fill the muscle with glycogen and that will be sufficient to maintain mass.

DH

Hey everybody. Sorry for the long gap. Between work, school, rehabbing my bum shoulder and coaching my son's various teams (don't I look the part for basketball!) I've been very short on time.

The NHE, which I mentioned about 50 pages ago is a very good diet. The only one I advocate in addition to the AD. I feel it is sometimes a viable alternative for "oddballs" on the AD. Those folks who have REALLY tried all various parameters and aren't getting satsifactory results.

The NHE is a fantastic read, probably the best out there in additon to Doc's Anabolic Solution and Metabolic Diet books. Rob has basically borrowed Vince Gironda's diet scheme. It works well for many and I'm a fan. I think the AD nudges it out for satisfaction and function. Otherwise the NHE is second to none.

DH

PS. Poliquin suggests that his athletes not take long loads (anthing over 1/2 day)until they are in the single digit bodyfat range. They are athletes first and foremost (most of them). After this he varies between timed CHO every 3-5 days (like Faigin and Gironda) or a longer load phase for mass (like the AD) as long as the individual doesn't start gaining fat. Like I've said before, the principles are golden, the particulars can be varied within reason. Once you get too "experimental" with Doc's principles you've shifted out of the hormonal/metabolic hot spot.

Hey DH! I hope I can be the first to welcome you back. I only discovered this thread this week, and I was already missing you! I've learned so much while reading this thread from your previous posts.

Thanks Ghost22, I was using 1 1/2 spoonfuls, but I will up it to 3 per serving, about 2-3 servings a day. It has definately helped me with the tuna intake, was much harder to eat straight tuna before, but now I can handle it 3 times a day as a snack along with my regular meals. I am getting about 2800 calories a day right now, but hopefully I can increse that some more. I will try shooting it with a water chaser also.

[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
g.anagno,

My bodyfat was really dropping in the later weeks I was using the AD. Basically I'm saying I experienced greater depletion/loading effects and a more pronounced bf reduction after several months.
quote]

Man, thanks for the quick feedback!

What you said, especially what i quote above, was a great help to continue!

How long are you on the AD?

I started my bulking cycle at around 150 g/fat a day and 170-190 g protein.I then gradually increased it over the next three months to 300g fat and 200-250 g protein.Did the whole-weekend carb-up and stuffed myself on clean carbs.result?

Went from this:

To This:

Keep in mind that prior to the bulking cycle I lost around 10 kgs,and got as lean as I've ever been in my life.Comments by the good Professor and others motivated me towards bulking,which in hindsight could have been more successful if done moderately.

I went from 82-83 kg to 93.Huge carb-ups are not for me.

Now I follow the NHE for bodybuilder's plan,and I'll see how my body responds to 150g fat a aday and 180 g protein.Two carb-ups a week,two last meals of thursday and saturday.

No idea about bodyfat.See for yourself.

I gained alot around my waist,though.Going simply by look I'd say most of the 10 kgs were fat.I've been skinny-fat my whole life,and it seems like upping the calories slowly and steadily and keeping the loads light is the way to go for my body.

My strength increased steadily.At the beginning of the bulk I benched 90 kgx3,now I do 100kgx5.I went from 90 kgx5 in the squat to 120kgx5.One thing I've noticed while on the AD and the NHE is that I don't burn out or get tired during a workout.

nice three month change bro.

Thats good work Wolverin...
your gains in strength is also impressive.
Good stuff.

Quick question about dessicated liver tablets. DH, I remember you were talking about how dessicated liver is a good AD supp a while back, so I went and got some (not expensive at all, btw). How much and how often should they be taken? With meals or on empty stomach? thanks

I started a new thread with these questions, but haven't had any response yet. Don't mean to be a nag :) just wondering if anyone had any thoughts for me. Thanks!

-------------------------------------
I have been following the AD thread here since it's inception and have been intrigued. On DiscHoss' recommendation, I bought and read the book "Natural Hormonal Enhancement" by Rob Faigin. It is very similar to the Anabolic Diet, but with a midweek carb-up and smaller weekend carb-up.

I always hear that women should train and eat basically the same as men, but still am a little skittish about trying such a dramatically different diet from what I've been doing.

I'm thinking of giving it a try as an experiment to see how it works for me, but wondered if anyone had any female-specific thoughts or input...

Derek, if you see this, I know you mentioned you have had a few female clients do very well with the AD - could you give me any details?

Personally, I would like to lean out a little bit more (lose about 5 more lbs or so of fat) and continue to build strength and muscle. Would a woman follow the BWx18 calorie recommendation to start? Do I understand the macros correctly? Should someone with my goals and/or a woman stay more towards one end of the percentage ranges?

Midweek:
Carbs <30g
Protein 40-50%
Fat 40-60%

Weekend:
Carbs 35-60%
Protein 15-30%
Fat 20-40%

Thanks for any tips, thoughts or suggestions you can share!

JB,
You can't go wrong with either. I think the biggest question to ask is whether or not you consider yourself a "controlled" eater or an "out of control" eater.

One woman did well at first, but found the loads to be the greatest temptation of her life on the AD. She'd inhale every piece of CHO she could fit in her mouth. For her, we used the NHE because she "dips" in and then pulls out. It helped with her psychological issue of not being able to put the breaks on the AD and sometimes overdoing it and breaking even or stalling progress.

On the other hand, my mother, sister-in-law, and 2 former "clients" all did beautifully on the AD. I noticed the common thread for women (often looking to trim up and NOT add much mass) is that if you can eat like a human instead of an Oreck XL vacuum cleaner then the AD is great for the social freedom and deep fat burning on thurs and friday. IF you can't pull out of a CHO nosedive and find yourself obsessing over food, then the NHE might be a good option to help with the discipline issue.

Bottom line, both are good, The AD is just plain easier and more fun (at least I think so!)

Best,
DH

Give me the brand and the dosage measurement being used.

DH

Hey Hoss. I've got:

Puritan's Pride Desiccated Liver tablets.

Serving size--1 tablet

Desiccated Liver 680 mg
Thiamin (B-1) 1 mg
Cyanocobalamin (B-12) 1 mcg

I weigh about 200 lbs, if that helps any.

By the way, I hit the gym today after finishing my second carb-up, and I looked significantly bigger this time with lots of endurance. I'm loving this diet.

Will taking just a scoop of dextrose with my protein after I workout in the morning mess with the fat burning of this diet, one scoop should only be about 30-40 carbs....

About the Puritan's Pride:

I'm sure you get what you pay for, like in everything in the marketplace. However, my thinking was, 680 mg of Desiccated Liver is still 680 mg of Desiccated Liver. Being a poor student I can either afford a small amount of top-of-the-line stuff, or a large amount of economy stuff. I'm figuring the latter is better for my situation.

Anyone got experience with the AD and cutting?I'm thinking of doing a one-day moderate carb-up Sunday,and a two-meal carb-up Thursday.Currently I'm getting 2000-2500 kcal a day, 150-180 g protein and 150-180 g fat.

I weigh 88.5 kg',and have a fairly sow metabolism.

Hey Wolverin. I'm quite new to the AD myself (I'm on my third carb-up right now), so I won't pretend to be an expert or anything. I'm trying to cut too. What I'm doing now is having a 24 hour carb-up from 10pm Saturday until 10pm Sunday.

I haven't really been counting calories. During the week, I just eat cheese, eggs or meat whenever I start to feel hungry. As for my carb-up, I try to control the damage by eating lots of fiberific food (oatmeal, buckwheat pancakes, apples, etc). One thing I've noticed is that I crave carbs less and less with each passing week. I didn't even particularly WANT to eat carbs this Saturday night, but I did anyway.

I haven't lost that much weight so far (I've gone from 210 to 205 in three weeks), but my body composition is improving noticeably (which is pretty cool given that I wasn't out of shape to begin with).

Regardign CLA while on the diet, is it alright to take? I know that it has been said to stay away from MCT's but I'm still not sure about CLA. I posted this a few months back and got a non-definite reply, so wanted to ask again to see if I could get a consensus on the mattter.