I know we have a Anabolic Diet thread on the S&N forum.

Unfortunately that forum has turned into fat-loss cult.

The AD thread is glutted with people who follow the diet for two weeks then jump into thread posting about how awesome it is to eat bacon all day....then they vanish.

I wanna know if any of you bodybuilding types have used the diet long-term to gain mass.( Or if you've tried it and think it sucks!)

I am interested in reading about how you manage your carb levels.

I've read the book and I've browsed the AD thread, it seems like most people (in that thread) are staying under 30 grams of carbs well past the induction phase.

It seems like they are more intrested in dropping or maintaining weight as opposed to mass building.

Curious.

It seems like the S&N posters don't follow the bodybuilding forum and the bodybuilders in this forum don't follow the AD.

I think I have my answer.

I'm at 20 months solid and will never go back. Here's a tip. If you're thinking about starting the AD because of what you can eat don't waste your time. That's what a lot of guys do. The reason for eating like I do is because of the results it brings not because you think it requires less discipline. I'm talking generally, not to YOU.

I'm all for better ways of doing things. I'm also for bucking the tried-and-true methods just because.

That being said, it's my humble opinion that trying to bodybuild with almost zero carbs (save for the weekend) is so tough a walk, that you'd have a difficult time convincing me it's a better way.

According to Tribulus, it IS possible to bodybuild on the AD and I really like his attitude toward the diet and the reasons to NOT start it. Hopefully he can provide more insight for you.

Yes, I had an extensive (2 year) mass gaining cycle with the Anabolic Diet. It was 1995-1997, when the book had first came out. I was a big follower of the "Serious Growth" folks back then....Leo Costa, Tom Platz, etc. and they were the first to market DiPasquale's Anabolic DIet. I dieted down with the diet over the summer of 95 to 178 lbs @ 5'10. I was 19 years old then. In September, I began a 3800-4000 calorie Anabolic Diet plan with liberal carb up weekends.

My training was with the "Big Beyond Belief" program that Platz and Costa wrote about in their book. I didn't take extensive notes on a training day by training day basis, but I did measure bodyfat, bodyweight, and arm measurements on a monthly basis. I'd have to go back and pull it out of my records, but it went something like this: Beginning- arms 16.5" Waist 32 inches, chest, 40 inches Bench press 295 x 1 Squat- 365 x 1.

Well, 18 months later after following this training program and the AD the numbers were- Bodyweight- 245 lbs, arms 19.75", waist 34 inches, chest 48.5 inches, Bench 445 x 1 Squat 405 x 13 reps ( 3 sets ). I know everyone is rolling their eyes right now saying this is total bull, but I stake my reputation as a charter member of T-Nation this is true.

Now granted all I did was go to school, deliver pizza two nights a week, eat, and train heavy. It was unbelievable strength and size gains, which really took me by surprise considering I had been serious about training all through my high school career. It must have been the right combination of food, training, and me maturing. One side effect that I really hated, and that is still with me is that I had MASSIVE MASSIVE stretch marks over my entire body. The were bright red and covered my arms all the way down to mid forearm, my chest, back, legs, ass, heck just about everywhere but my face! I have long suspected that perhaps I was deficient in PUFA in my diet from the AD which contributed to my skin not being as elastic as it needed to be.

After the AD bulking cycle, I dieted down to enter that silly EAS Lamborghini contest. I got back down to 195 ( very lean) and actually placed in the top ten in my age group in that contest and received a year's supply of three supplements.

To sum it up, 98% of all the muscle I have ever gained has been on the AD. I know I am do not have typical results, but it was very good to me. I would definitely recommend it( with a few mods) to anyone looking to gain solid bodyweight with minimal fat gain. It was extremely easy after about 3 weeks. THats all I can think of at the moment. Ask away if you have any Q's!

It IS possible to gain muscle and strength on a low-carbs diet.

My friend Hugo Girard, who used to be top 3 in the world in WSM (World Strongest Man) is training to make a comeback (after tearing his Achilles tendon) and he is eating a low-carbs diet. It is even stricter than the AD since he only has one carb-up day a week and he doesn't consume as much saturated fat as those using the typical AD.

While he is not a bodybuilder, the fact that as of last Friday he is 332lbs at 10.5% bodyfat (trust me, he IS that lean!) on 6'2'' kinda makes me believe that his results are applicable for bodybuilding purposes!

So yes, it is possible to gain on such a diet. But caloric intake must be high enough to fuel muscle growth. A lot of peoples consume too little calories when trying to gain on a low-carbs diet. In fact, it is one of the fat-loss benefits of such a diet: you are not that hungry and it's harder to get a high amount of calories in.

To build muscle you need:

- A sufficient amount of protein. Proteins are the building blocks of muscle; the raw material used to build a house. Without sufficient raw material you cannot build the house.

- A sufficient energy intake. Building muscle is an energy-dependent process. Yes you need protein to build muscle, but the process of using those protein to fabricate new muscle tissue require energy, and lots of it. See energy as the salary you pay the workers who are building your house: if you don't pay them enough they will not work as well and as fast. Furthermore, building muscle is just about the last priority of your body, behind all the other stuff necessary for survival. So only the energy left over from fueling your daily activities and bodily processes can be used to build muscle. Energy is essentially either carbs or fat. Protein can also be used for energy, but we don't want that! So if you cut your carbs, you NEED to have a high fat intake to have enough energy to fuel your daily needs THEN build muscle.

- An adequate amount of the essential nutrients. There are no ''essential carbohydrates''. However there are essential amino acids and essential fatty acids. Amino acid needs will be covered if protein intake is high. Essential fatty acids, especially the DHA/EPA ones are often underestimated yet they are essential for optimal muscle building, especially on a low-carbs diet.

- An insulin spike at the right time. To maximise post-workout recovery and anabolism we need an insulin spike post-workout. Normally we use carbs post-workout to spike insulin, but on a low-carbs diet we can't. However several amino acids do have pro-insulin properties. The BCAAs and especially leucine, glutamine, glycine can all spike insuline. Whey isolate also has a pro-insulin property. So it is very important to consume a large amount of protein, BCAAs (15-30g), glutamine (10-20g and more if your stomach can handle it) and ideally glycine (5-10g or more if your stomach can handle it).

- Glutamine, even though it is a somewhat overrated supplement, especially if you are eating carbs, can be very useful on a low-carbs diet because it can be turned into glucose than stored as glycogen in the muscle. So even though you are not consuming carbs, if your daily glutamine intake is high, your glycogen stores will never be depleted.

- Glutamine can also increase blood pH; in other words it makes the body/blood less acid. A high protein intake has the opposite effect (it makes it more acid). When blood pH is low (more acid) muscle building and fat loss are decreased. So ingesting 5g of glutamine with every protein meal is a very effective way of improving the efficacy of this diet. Note that green veggies have the same acid-lowering property as glutamine.

Thank you all for the replies.

Now that I look back it's possible I was under eating while on my AD experiment.

Thanks for posting CT that it is very interesting and helpful. But I do not understand why you would go on a low carb diet to replenish glycogen and have an insulin spike in other ways I thought the purpose of a low carb diet was to lower insulin It this just because some people feel like crap after eating carbs(I am one of them) and these things do not have that effect or is there another reason? And does the glutamine with protein containing meals go against the no carbs + fat rule I thought the point of that rule was to avoid an insulin spike when eating fat. I don't doubt tha these recomendations work I just don't understand why

How long do you have to be below 50g of carbs a day before your body starts using fats/ketones as a primary source of energy/ when can you have a carb up day? After that how long til the next carb up day, for muscle gain.

Also do you need to have large carb up days or can I just have oatmeal in the am, Surge PWO and maybe a nice juicy hamburger and some fries for dinner :)?

Okay, I'm reading about this Anabolic Diet and am actually fairly intrigued, because I'm still relatively high in BF, but after taking a year to get serious about losing weight I really don't want to sacrifice strength and size gains. That being said, with the anabolic diet requiring very few carbs, does this essentially mean no protein shakes? I assume if there's an abundance of red meat we could get our protein through that means, but I just want to make sure. Also, do things like Superfood or Surge play a large role into the Anabolic Diet?

Okay, thanks, this helps a lot. I still have a decent shelf of fat on me, but again, as a former-HUGE-boy, I want to continue to get stronger and bigger, while trying to get the rest of this fat off of my body. The type of plan you're suggesting sounds ideal, but another question stems from your suggestion.

You mentioned the general baseline for losing fat. If I stuck to this, and began losing fat, would I in turn lose strength or muscle size, or is going to help me maintain? I'm just curious, because when I went on my year-long diet stint I lost a significant amount of strength and some size, too.

Okay, again, thanks for the info. When I was dieting was before I really starting eating up the information at T-Nation, and was only raking in somewhere between 1,500-1,800 calories a day while trying to gain muscle mass... how little I knew. On top of that, I also probably only brought in somewhere between 100-150 grams of protein, so I definitely had no idea of what I was doing. Thankfully, I found T-Nation before it was too late.

So with my bodyweight being 165lbs, I should only consume 2680 calories to gain mass? My goal is to gain mass with little fat gain, it seems really hard when I only get 2680 calories a day. Do these numbers seem right

1.75xBW + 10%= 316g protein
.75xBW + 10%= 135g fat
50g carbs

I do also apologize to the OP for the thread hijack.

CT from your personal experience and clients, what would you say is better to gain mass while not becoming a fat-ass??...would you go low carb?? or would you go high fat??.

I been on the AD for a while and trying to lose some fat at the moment but tend to go overboard on the carb-ups. This upcoming weekend I will try your method however if I make my last 3 meals mostly carbs then what would I do with the first 3 meals of the day??..Should I make them high in protein with some veggies??

I've been on the AD for about a month now, which isn't long-term by any stretch, but I'm getting familiar with it.

Let me state one thing outright, at 177 lbs I DO NOT need to cut any weight, and that was not my intention when starting it. I stay close to 10%-12% BF pretty much all the time and I am a chronic undereater, so I don't need to get cut or anything silly like that. That wasn't my intension.

My main goal was testing my carb tolerance. What actually caught my attention was my steady increase in caffeine throughout the day. I did get a work promotion but nothing too stress inducing, I'm currently not in classes, and my schedule hasn't changed...yet my reliance on the energy spike continued to grow over the past 6 months and it was affecting my sleeping habits (vicious circle).

So I started looking at my diet because my slumps were usually after eating. I was eating fairly clean but with high protein and carbs.

I started AD just to limit my carbs as an experiment and I kept a very close eye on the scale over the past 4-6 weeks. For the first week there was no change at all (thank god) and I even went up a pound. By the third week, I was noticing a drop to right around 170 to 171 lbs, and then a glycogen/water increase up to 177 or so right after the carb days.

But what I did like was that I gained some muscle and lost a small amount of fat (keep in mind I didn't really care to measure it, I'm going by the mirror so it may have been water as well). Mainly though I started feeling a bit better with lower carbs...this might be because I was increasing my protein or because I am not as tolerant of carbs as I thought I was.

The things I didn't like was feeling almost ill the second day after getting carbs (like I was getting a cold), and as CT stated the disregard of fat or carb types.

I am going out of town next week and when I get back I am probably going to modify it to be a bit more conscious of the fats. I also like CTs thoughts on three carb meals as opposed to a whole weekend, that may help with the "feeling like crap on tuesday".

Oh, and if I start to lose weight all bets are off, and I'm diving into a box of Little Debbies.

Not that you guys wont listen, BUT LISTEN to everything CT has to say regarding low carb diets and everything to do with it, as he is thet truth. I used the AD for approx 7 months and gained ALOT of fat thanks to the 2 f%#ing carb up days and the recommendations I recieved from others on the AD, who may have responded well to them...I did not. It is a VERY individual thing(carbs ups) and amount of nutrients etc. I highly recommend a low carb approach to fat loss and muscle preservation.

I know you guys are thinking we have heard this, coming from coach CT, but just wanted to chime in, as I have recently made great changes in my physique from ALL his recommendations...

GJ

Gymjunkie, Ahmen.

I followed the whole carb-up thing. and i gained weight. Yey. But what? my Lifts were actually going down...?

Right now I've been on the low/no Carb diet, with the macro nutrient split for fat loss. and its Working. And I have been busting my Personal Records almost every 2-3 weeks.

Low Carb Diets work, well for me they do cause they help with insulin sensitivity. And what fats you use Really do Matter.(Being a former super fat boy at 5'5 @90kgs+ about 3 years ago). Read Coach CT's "Thin Gets Riped" fourm.

I was thinking about this diet a little more last night before I went to sleep, and I thought of another question: How do people eat before a workout and immediately after? I'm generally eating some whole grains before a workout for some slow-burning energy, and I'll drink a G2 or something like that afterwards with my protein shake to get some fast-burning carbs in there. Without carbs or Surge though, what do people on the AD resort to?

If in order to get our bodies to use fat/ketones as primary fuel, we have to be in ketosis, but what if we are just using a low carb diet (<100g), is the primary fuel source carbs or is it mostly fat and some carbs. Basically what i'm trying to say is if you're not in ketosis, is there even a point to going low carb?

Thanks coach, this clears a lot of things up. You must be a very sensitive guy, with all that Flameout and insulinomics ;). I just fish oil was cheaper. With the amount you need to really help insulin sensitivity, i would need about a bottle of Flameout a week! Too much $$ for me.

I do, however recommend taking in 10g of BCAA and 10g of glutamine pre-workout (immediately before) and another 10-20g (at least) of BCAAs during the workout (for its anti-catabolic properties.



An insulin spike at the right time. To maximise post-workout recovery and anabolism we need an insulin spike post-workout. Normally we use carbs post-workout to spike insulin, but on a low-carbs diet we can't. However several amino acids do have pro-insulin properties. The BCAAs and especially leucine, glutamine, glycine can all spike insuline. Whey isolate also has a pro-insulin property. So it is very important to consume a large amount of protein, BCAAs (15-30g), glutamine (10-20g and more if your stomach can handle it) and ideally glycine (5-10g or more if your stomach can handle it).

- Glutamine, even though it is a somewhat overrated supplement, especially if you are eating carbs, can be very useful on a low-carbs diet because it can be turned into glucose than stored as glycogen in the muscle. So even though you are not consuming carbs, if your daily glutamine intake is high, your glycogen stores will never be depleted.


I dont know if this answers your question. But CT basically said he does recommended a pre-workout concoction which will help restore glycogen stores... which you have just said will be depleted....


Also, Ketones are very "Glycogen sparing"; i'm sure CT will get back with that shortly haha.

I figured I'd post this, assuming CT keeps reading this thread (which is great!)

This comes from the article "Refined Physique Transformation".

This is awesome. More questions have been answered in the past two pages of this thread than the entire "My Experience on the Anabolic Diet" thread. I'm really glad this thread got started.

How would one transition off a low carb diet to a high carb diet?

Would it be "smart" to just start it as you did when switching to high far or would it be less risky to up the carbs little by little?

I think a lot of people are forgetting that regarless if you are in ketosis or not, the body will convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis.

Therefore low carb + high protein will still produce plenty of glucose. In fact you can still get an insulin spike from a high protein meal. Only fat does not raise insulin.

That has always been my problem with low carb diets in the context of body building. In fact I wonder if too much protein can kick you out of ketosis?

Also I don't believe in switching diets all the time. Pick one that works and agrees with you and stick to in for the long term. If you want to cut, reduce a little of everything (but mostly fat and carbs). And if you want to gain add a little of everything.

CT, How do you feel about the "AD's" testoterone boosting claims?

thanks MODOK!

CT:

Thanks a lot for your wisdom in this thread. I'm sitting around 145 (at 5'7) and probably 18% BF. I want to gain a ton of mass of course, but an illness brought me down to 132 from 176 and I have only recently started gaining weight and getting better.

Following your advice on page 1, if I were to go with say:

Protein: 1.5g /lb
Fat: .75g /lb (yes, good fats mostly)
Carbs: 50g

Then up the protein/fat grams by 10% each, as a starting point, and gauge the diet from there...

Is that a good approach for someone with my BF levels looking to gain mass? Or does it matter what my ultimate physique goal is?

I used to entertain the idea of dieting down to 10% bf levels first, but I have been convinced that it's foolish and I should have way more muscle mass on me before thinking of cutting; I've no problem gaining fat while gaining muscle, just curious about your take on the matter.

Thanks again for your time.

Has anyone truly answered the question: can you build muscle on a low carb (less than 50 carbs/day) diet?

I love to eat low carb and do well on it. However, when I want to go on a mass cycle (with a little AS help) I don't gain muscle. I'd like to give the low carb approach another shot. I should also mention that i don't like to carb up. it gets me out of ketosis and i feel lethargic. I weigh 210 with 8% BF and always get 400gm of protein. so protein intake is never the problem.

the bottom line for me is: can someone build muscle on a low carb diet without a carb up meal or day (consistent low carbs)? this would assume a high caloric intake and bodybuilding style training

*Re-posting from before. Anyone with more knowledge in this field than I have any ideas about the below questions?*

Re: A) and B) above - 2 things here. #1, my understanding of the AD was that it is NOT strictly a ketogenic diet. The carb loads were designed to keep one out of ketosis, the whole "skimming the surface of ketosis" line the venerable Disc Hoss used way back in the original AD thread, and one of the reasons for the carb-ups.

#2 - it makes sense these type of diets are glycogen sparing, as normal aerobic activity is fueled by burning fat. However, as brought up by Tribulus, if intense anaerobic activity (i.e. weightlifting) CAN be fueled by an energy source other than glycogen, what is it, and why eat ANY carbs? You said the body can replenish glycogen by converting fats and protein, so why not stick to those macros? In other words, what is the benefit (outside of overall health, let's focus strictly on training in this context) of eating carbs?

Re: your response to 2) above - This ties in with the above question. If as you say a fat-adapted trainee may only use half as much glycogen as normal in a training session, what is he burning for fuel? He may use less glycogen, but he's expending the same amount of energy per session, carbless diet or not. SOMETHING is fueling the muscle.

My thought is this: if it's fat, then semi-frequent carb loads make sense because we don't want fat to fuel anaerobic activity because of the oxidization issue I brought up earlier. If it's still glycogen, through the conversion of fats and protein, then my original question stands: why re-load on carbs at all if the body can replenish glycogen on its own?

*Anyone? From CT's latest post, clearly something about carb ingestion contributes positively to the muscle-building process; I just can't seem to figure out what it might be.

CT for someone who is 5'11" and around 170-175 lbs with 12-15% bodyfat(not lean), What would you recommend as far as carb meals frequency. I train 5-7 days a weeks(lifting 5-6 days a week and soccer 1-3 times per week).

I have been eating carbs for the last 3-4 days(feel much better with no carbs), should I do an induction phase again even though I been on the AD for around 3 months.?

I am trying to get down to 9-10% bodyfat.

Thanks.

Just figured I asked CT for his thoughts on acute acidosis on such a diet like the Anabolic diet. Obviously with a VLCD, the lack of alkaline foods like fruit and starchy vegetables such as yams and potatoes would leave someone at a high-ER chance of developing acidosis.

But CT, do you know if it's anything to worry about? Obviously one of the best vegetables to eat are your leafy greens which seem to be the most alkalizing, which you often recommend for those who chose to have 50g or less carbs a day. Is it anything anyone should worry about while on the Anabolic diet, or alteration of it?

BTW Thanks for making this thread one of the most knowledgable threads on bodybuilding via low-carb diets. This thread is an A+ wealth of information because of you. Thanks

Not to mention that keeping your body alkaline is necessary to continue as a member of the human race. Fortunately we have a very powerful and tightly controlled buffering system in our bodies which allow us to stay upright and above the ground.

CT, I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to go over all this! I know I've certainly learned a great deal.

My experience with the AD was pretty positive, and I learned that I function better with fewer carbs. I recently upped my carb intake to less than 100g/day, and it's been amazing how much better I function.

Now, thanks to all this information you've provide (and others, as well), I understand why!

Great thread!

This is going to come in handy-- Thanks DT!! It took me almost a week to get through the A-D thread in S/N!!

I've started a recipe thread for A-D 'Italian' Cuisine:

http://www.T-Nation.com/...c.do?id=2144267

MODOK: Would u say ur more like an ecto, meso, or endo?

CT: So basically this is just a normal keto diet your talking about right? I have a friend who used to be really fat and now he's gotten upto 190lb. and around 9%bf at 5'7! he's gotten such good results from basically just doing a keto diet.

I just started my bulk today but unfortunately i'm starting at 12.5%bf. I'm going to be following a carb cycling plan similar to the one in ur "carb cycling codex" article, just with less fat because it put me at around 45% fat.

anyway last time i did keto i had some serious problems. i wasnt gaining weight (due to water weight leaving which i didnt think about) so i jacked up the calories to near 3800 pretty quickly.

I noticed i gained fat pretty damn fast that way and when i began my cut my results were good but nothing exceptional if i remember correctly. I like the concept of Keto but does it seem like i shouldnt do it or that i just ate too much?

Also i dont know if it would be good to go back anytime soon because i got really bad acne from it. I'm just now having it be unnoticeable and it started back in september

This was a great thread. Thanks for bumping it, I missed it before.

I will add my two cents in.

I've been playing around with the AD diet/low carbs diet for like the past 5+ yrs.

When I first started, like most people I felt like shit because I was probably used to eating way more carbs than my body can handle so the sudden absence of carbs was quite the shock.

As time went out, I adapted and for the most part it has been great. My energy is always constant and 100%. I don't have the constant up and downs of the carb based diet. I never have problems with energy in the gym like some report and I still get great pumps. Maybe, a lower carbs diet just suits me better long term.

However, the AD weekend carbups were always hell. I even questioned the validity of them. I would always feel like shit after them, eating if eating "clean" carbs.


Historically, (like Thibs said earlier in the thread) this type of diet, first recommended by Gironda was never meant to have a "Carb-up" days

The all day carb-ups IMO is the quickest way to get off the bandwagon so to speak. at least for me. Also, it is easy to revert back to your negative carb habits that you were avoiding during the week.

My guess is if you can handle a 1-2 day carb-up without negative effects, you probably don't need a low carb diet in the first place.

Things started to really crystalize for me when I started adhering to the Gironda guideline of 1 carb meal a week. Thib's article, "Refined Physique Transformation" really is when everything started making sense. I try to follow that.

Once, I become lean enough to my liking I will add back in post WO carbs.

And to answer the original question, yes, I am getting bigger.

What bf% and weight are u at now greekdawg?

I've always been interested in these types of diets but last time i did a keto diet my skin got really oily and i got really bad acne. i agree about not having a full carb up weekend but i'd think 2-3 big carb meals one day of the week would be of importance.

and i just read that refined physique transformation too, good stuff. Sometimes it's hard to determine what i should do based on my level, like i would assume i shouldnt do OVT being a 2 weeks away from 17 and only training for 2 years, but overall i like his methodology and he shows that "former fat boys" really can look great

I just got done the two week induction phase of the traditional AD (this is about the third time in my life I have gotten started on it, never stayed on it long before). I found a link to this thread from one of the threads in S&N. CT's variation on the low-carb diet with carb-up idea interests me though.

Having found it a bit difficult to fit in vegetables easily while staying under 30 g of carbs but also staying above 25 g of fiber, I would consider having up to 50 g of carbs to play with a boon. Variety and nutrition would be much improved. I could even include a glass of wine once my adrenals get back up to snuff (I believe there is about 5 - 7 g of sugar in a 3 oz glass).

The idea of a limited carb-up also resonates with me. As much as sugar filled items sometimes tempt me, I really don't find myself craving them that much. I seem to have bad reactions to some of my carb-up meals (food allergy? acid? metabolic reaction? don't know) despite being moderately clean. I seem to smooth out pretty quick too.

Anyway, I think I would like to give CT's variation a go instead of the standard AD. I had good success years back on a low-carbs diet with no carb-ups with about 40 g or so of carbs per day. I have carbed up today for the first time after the two week induction phase I mentioned above. I ate maybe 75% clean.

Do I need to start another two week induction to switch diets or am I fat adapted enough despite the full day carb feast today?

Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster (Always wanted to say that).

Anyhow, I have been on the AD for over 9 months and I have loved the results. Body fat dropped from mid 20's to low 10's (or even lower if I ever get a hydrostatic test dunk to verify) and I have had no problems with either bulking up or cutting on the AD.

My macros are as clean as possible. my sat/poly/mono ratios are almost equal (21% sat/13% mono/17% poly) and I get a good amount of daily fats from fish oil, flax oil, CLA, EVOO, eggs and the rest from animal meat.

I'm also taking a multi-vitamin pack each day that has pretty much all the nutrients that the Doc suggests in the book.

I do have a question for CT that he might shed some light on: Up to about a month ago I was keeping all my daily carbs mainly from green veggies (lettuce, cabbage, broccoli) but I have to tell you that I absolutely hate veggies. It s is very hard for me to eat them every day so I really find it a chore.

Last month I found a very clean Whole wheat whole grain bread at Costco (Alpine Valley) where the only ingredients are 100% Whole Grain Wheat flour, Organic Whole Grain Wheat flour, water honey, sea salt, yeast. This stuff tastes great and if I cut each slice into four equal pieces I get about 4.25g of carbs (one slice has 18g of carbs 2g fibers).

I slowly began substituting my veggies with with the bread and I can still keep my daily carbs under control but my question is... am I taking one step forward/3 steps back by only using whole wheat bread instead of veggies?

I know veggies are important for certain nutritional content but can they be completely removed (or at least cut down substantially) without effecting my overall nutritional goals.

No amount of multivitamins will replace actually eating veggies

Wow great thread. Question for the group. Starting the adaptation phase tomorrow. Should I count veggie CHO or not? I have heard both yes and no. Looking for some advice. Also, artificial sweeteners? CHO or not? Just wondering.

I'm just about to start my first bulk on the AD (first ever bulk actually) so hopefully I'll be able to provide a bit of feedback. Wish me luck!

Coach, incredible info. thanks. I am versed on CKDs and I am wondering one thing. You have touched on the different energy pathways. I understood that in a carb restricted/depleted (anaerobically) state, the ingested carb. will replace muscular and haepatic glycogen stores first. This effect takes place from 24-72 hours. (I have read from diff. authors). I am very carb intolerant and from German descent.

Question: I also understood that dietary fat, when consumed, obviously cannot be converted to glycogen and if not used for energy will most certainloy be deposited as body fat. With that in mind, how is this avoided with a semingly high fat intake?

Ok I'm looking at starting bulking next month but I'm not exactly sure yet what approach I should take.
I have read the easy hardgainer article and that totally sounds like me.. but one problem I have had is as soon as I start eating a ton of carbs I bloat up like crazy.
What would be my best approach?
carb cycling
ad
or just stick with the plan in the article?

I think the carb cycling approach seems like the best option since I shouldnt get as bloated but I will still get the carbs I need..

on the AD diet i did not gain much mass while eating ~3500 cals at 173. apparently i need a lot more (5k probably) to gain.

Hi bro, but lets say u suddenly go of the diet. would u put alot of fat back on really quickly?
what if u bring back carbs slowly..?

I've been on a bulk for 3 months now on the anabolic diet and its worked well enough for me. I've gone from 180 with 149lbs of muscle to 205 with 165lbs of muscle. I plan on continuing my bulk until I reach 240lbs, after which I will hopefully cut down to a lean 200lbs. During my last carb up I managed to stuff myself with 800 grams of carbs, and I've been loving the diet so far.

Hello, gents.

First, in the interest of preserving Doc�??s true position and to add clarity to any statements concerning any changes Mauro has allegedly made on his cyclical dietary concept, I�??d like to add a few things.

In short, Maruo hasn�??t changed anything significant and has often been misrepresented.

He just sent me a personal copy of his second edition of Amino Acids and Proteins for the Athlete, where he again expounds the principles behind his cyclical dietary practices.

Mauro also contributed the diet section to Bompa�??s latest release of Serious Strength Training. Doc has not changed his dietary structure in any real way, just wanted to clear that notion up from the start.

Now, problems seem to stem from a combination of Doc�??s need for brevity in the original AD and the apparent over-zealousness of folks not reading the books in their entirety. Or not reading the Anabolic Solution, which is his expanded version of the AD.

Concerning the issue of macro choices, Doc�??s Anabolic Solution and his made for public MD address this issue quite adequately, even though some castigate his original work for not spelling certain aspects out.

Mauro has time and again mentioned the original was a quick and dirty how-to manual geared toward the bodybuilder. Current criticisms are misdirected as his newer editions all address this issue.

Also, as far as the load duration, it was stated in the original and in all updated variants the the real indication of when to stop the load is once you begin to smooth out.

It is an individual thing that will vary even with the same individual depending on what type of CHO is ingested. So the critique of time frames again is a bit unfair. I can understand how the misconception got started, but it�??s not a true reflection of what Mauro wrote or taught, even initially.

He stated that in his experience 24-48 hours worked best on his attempt to best his PL max�??s. But, he stated and then stressed thereafter that load intake and CHO type are aspects that each person must experiment with.


He looked at this as a �??plus�?? to the AD as each week is an opportunity to find what works best as far as type of CHO and duration of intake.

With respect to the issue of how much fat to take in, he stated that as long as one hit about 40% minimum total intake, that the diet would work. He suggested that one begin with 50-60%.

It was actually Dan Duchaine who advocated up to 70% and even 80%, not Doc. Again, sometimes a lack of attention to detail can bring unnecessary criticism.

Now, let me put the key way to think about massing on the AD as succinctly as possible. *What you eat (macros) determines what you gain/lose (tissue type). How much you eat determines how much you gain/lose.*

Now that�??s a bit footloose and fancy-free, but it best brings the concept home.

Best,
DH

PS. While the AD thread can seem impossible to navigate, I have addressed the core issues as to the workings and rationale of the diet in the early days of the thread. The answers are there if you go looking for them. Anything worth having is worth working for, eh.

wow...like this thread alot. I will be stopping by regularly from now on I am sure. I occasionaly have questions about some things not addressed in the Anabolic Solution. So I hope you dont mind if I pick your brains a little. thank you.

Pat

Hey Thib, i have a question regarding mental performance when in a state of ketosis. (Anyone else that has some knowledge please enlighten me too)


You mentioned earlier that, generally speaking, being on a low carb (say 50g-100g of carbs per day) can lead to a lack in mental performance, whereas being on a <30g carb per day diet will mean your body is purely using ketones, and you will not have decreased mental performance.

Is that to say that, ketones are as effective at providing the brain with energy as a high carb diet (say >300g per day), meaning that your cognition / attention span / memory retention will not suffer?

Lets say that if the only thing i valued higher than my bodybuilding pursuits was my university study and i needed every mental performance edge i could get, would i be at all disadvantaged by being in a state of ketosis cf non-restricted carbs?


I searched a few databases for some decent studies to prove/disprove this but couldn't find any

The brain can function using ketones so focus shouldn't be a problem. As long as the brain is getting a energy source to use it works just fine.

Great thread.

I had a liberal carb bulk up go a little haywire and have used low carb the last month or so to fit into my pants again. To avoid the same from happening again I will give AD a shot to get me from current 185 lbs to 210 lbs.

I know from previous experience that for some odd reason it will take relatively more calories to gain on AD compared to a higher carb (or more frequent carb-up) type of diet.

Hate to repeat what others have said, but what a great thread. I usually watch my carbs, but a liberal holiday season followed by a liberal january have left me hovering over 16% bf. Just call me chubs. Anyways, thanks to all for the great info, going to go vlc and follow Thib's carb re-feed recommendations. Unfortunately my % puts me in the higher range. Not for long.

I don't know why the AD has turned into a ketosis diet...to my understanding it's not. But most here, including CT, keep labeling it as so and giving suggestions/facts & tidbits based on being in ketosis

Is spiking insulin post workout a necessity? As a poor student I do not have acces to BCAAs, Glutamine or any supplements, but I managed some time without insulin spike post workout.

Can i reach decent results by this way? nutrients will be stored, whatever insulin spike I cause post workout, or I suppose it totally wrong?..

I only gave some weeks to a low-carb, but high caloric diet, because I wanted to experience it. Now I decided to give it full three months and see wether I can make some gains. ^^

In fact, I plan to buy some supplements, glutamine, bcaa, perhaps liquid amino and a whey concentrate-isolate blend.

This should do the trick post workout. That glutamine blend is also packed with several insulin mimickers and absorption boosters. I also got a creatine blend (zero caloric) to christmas with ALA, taurine, arginine and other stuff what said to be raise insulin response. if so, then I can use these supps in 2 or 3 months to help me with my gaining..

of course i eat a tons of calories, I just a bit careful, as I don't want to be a 135 kg fatass again as I was 2 years ago in the age of 15. :D So I don't even do 2 days of carb loading with bunch of shit and tons of ice cream, I just get some brown rice with fruits and that's all (maybe 300 grs of carbs? my bf is currently somewhere around 10-11%, slight abs and fibers and veins in my shoulders. I began weight training about 1.5 year ago, and I'm weak and skinny as hell ;) )

I'll post some "progress reports" to this topic in every few weeks until this type of eating can be afforded financially :( :(

CT recomends coffee as one of the "alowed" drinks on this kind of diets, but I read that caffeine creates an "empty peak" of insulin, and that could take you out of lypolisis.
Whats true about this?

I LOVE you christian....i was kinda misunderstood about the whole idea of low carbs, but i understand it so much better now

thank you

hey I just want to know could I get my fats just from flax and olive oil and really limit my saturated fat intake and get the same results doing the anabolic diet? Reason being my cholesterol is slightly high and eating 6 whole eggs and beef all day long seems like it would worsen that. Any advice?

Oh I also forgot to mention that I know the first 2 weeks you have to be virtually 0 carbs, so am i not allowed to take in any fiber either? because i been doing it for 7 days now eating just meat and 2 tbls flax with each of my 6 meals. The scary part is i havent went to the bathroom in those 7 days!